BC Stunner: 2 days, 3 new races..

Originally Posted by philcski

They can & do, but only for 10 starters. The outside posts would be forced into Long Branch with 14.

Either way, this is sick. I'm excited already!

Thanks Phil for that info. I didnt know it was limited to only 10 horses.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

one more day at the races..changing the travel plans of many and putting big bucks into host citys..

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

putting big bucks into host citys..

You mean the entire Monmouth county region.
Not just Oceanport, NJ.

Make sure to take in the Boardwalk, Asbury Park, Long Beach Island, etc.

Springsteen might be playing at the PNC Banks Arts center
if not, you'll have to catch Jon Bon Jovi shopping at the Middletown Target.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

one more day at the races..changing the travel plans of many and putting big bucks into host citys..

It's funny....Monmouth doesn't really have a " city " so to speak. I guess it is similar to having the race at Belmont in a way.

I guess this means the Friday card will be an improvement from Churchill's ( and Belmont's the previous year ). The 2YO turf race should attract a lot of Euros.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's funny....Monmouth doesn't really have a " city " so to speak. I guess it is similar to having the race at Belmont in a way.

I guess this means the Friday card will be an improvement from Churchill's ( and Belmont's the previous year ). The 2YO turf race should attract a lot of Euros.

one negative to this regarding the 2 year turf race is that a horse like Johannesburg would have never seen the dirt then, IMO

[Travis Stone]

The irony of the distance changes... the 7 furlong F&M Sprint going 6 this year, and the mile, is that most racetracks are one mile in circumference. It's the same as the 10 fur F&M Turf... most tracks cannot handle that distance, so it goes to 11f.

Well if Belmont Park has to place
the Starting Gate in the middle of the turn to start the Breeders Cup Classic...

what's a lesser race in New Jersey ?

[blackthroatedwind]

The whole idea is basically a poor one....but it's the BC....the enemy of major league racing...... so why would it be a good idea?

Starting from the top....the mile. This will dilute the Classic ( not seriously ) and the Sprint in two detrimental ways. One, it will take away somewhat interesting contenders and two it will open the sprint up to more useless vermin that, in theory, doesn't belong in a championship race.

Now, the Filly and Mare sprint. OK, I understand one could argue they sort of " deserve " their own race...however.....fillies and mares have fared VERY well in the BC Sprint over the years and so in reality this race will further rob the BC Sprint of its overall quality.

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole idea is basically a poor one....but it's the BC....the enemy of major league racing...... so why would it be a good idea?

Starting from the top....the mile. This will dilute the Classic ( not seriously ) and the Sprint in two detrimental ways. One, it will take away somewhat interesting contenders and two it will open the sprint up to more useless vermin that, in theory, doesn't belong in a championship race.

Now, the Filly and Mare sprint. OK, I understand one could argue they sort of " deserve " their own race...however.....fillies and mares have fared VERY well in the BC Sprint over the years and so in reality this race will further rob the BC Sprint of its overall quality.

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

Not to be negative, but I was thinking this too. And of course it is the Breeder's Cup and so many breeders are breeding for speed rather than staminia they might as well continue to support this.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Not to be negative, but I was thinking this too. And of course it is the Breeder's Cup and so many breeders are breeding for speed rather than staminia they might as well continue to support this.

I think you will see 3 or 4 horses with distance limitations that have no real shot in the Classic go in the Mile. You will see 3 or 4 from the Sprint that the distance is too short for them go in the Mile. And you'll see 3 or 4 like Wanderin Boy, Sir Greeley, and a few Cigar Mile horses that wouldn't run in the BC otherwise. I don't think it will dilute anything too much and will add another intriguing race to the program.

I cant to see what betting exotics they will come with. They will prob have something like the Spint Double. Or maybe a two day pick 6 wager. Who knows, endless possibilites. At least they are trying to be innovative.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

I think we will see this lead to increased focus on 2yo turf racing. More stakes will crop up prior to the BC and the few that do exist will move up to graded status as they become important preps for the Juvenile Turf. It will encourage more trainers to try their 2yos on the turf and give a name to the American turf horses that otherwise go unnoticed until June or July of their 3yo season. And of course getting some top Euros to come over will be fun. The first couple years will be rocky but I think in a couple years there will be a very different attitude towards 2yo turf racing (especially if a BC Juvenile Turf winner wins the Derby before a BC Juvenile winner).

[NTamm1215]

BTW,

I agree with all of your points quite well and I think in a way the BC Committee might not have taken all of those thoughts into consideration.

The Juvenile Turf race for example, if any of you bet either the Pilgrim or Miss Grillo on closing weekend at Belmont you'd know that the fields were pretty lackluster. Almost all the horses had just broken their maidens and the races were somewhat inscrutable. It wasn't until a race like the Laurel Futurity in late November that these 2 YOs developed some kind of turf "form." Now, I'm assuming NYRA, SoCal, and Kentucky will move up the pace with which they let 2YOs run on the grass. Normally you don't see a 2YO grasser at Belmont in the spring longer than 6 furlongs, I guess we're gonna have to see those at a mile, that way at Saratoga you can continue it to 1 1/16 so that there's some build up to the race.

The Mile race to me would be incredible if every BC host track could accomodate a one-turn mile. Unfortunately, of the regular host tracks the only ones that can are Belmont and Churchill. Arlington and Gulfstream can also, but I don't think either can be considered regular host tracks right now. So we get a bargain at a mile and 70 this year.

I'm trying to think about who would have been in some of these races this year if they had had them and the F&M Sprint is a real question mark. I come up with Malibu Mint, Dubai Escapade, everyone from the First Flight on the same day at Aqueduct, all in all what would seem like an average field.

I guess I like change, but personally I get frustrated with the selection of host tracks (and I worked at Lone Star in 2004) because the rotation in my opinion should just be Belmont, Churchill, SA. Tracks where the distances all work, except of course this new mile race at SA, but also where the biggest races are run all year and where the crowds can fit. I went to Monmouth for the first time this year and while I liked it, all I can say is good luck to anyone who's gonna brave the late October Jersey shore weather in that obviously summertime racetrack.

Sorry for the rambling and welcome to the board for me!

NT

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole idea is basically a poor one....but it's the BC....the enemy of major league racing...... so why would it be a good idea?

Starting from the top....the mile. This will dilute the Classic ( not seriously ) and the Sprint in two detrimental ways. One, it will take away somewhat interesting contenders and two it will open the sprint up to more useless vermin that, in theory, doesn't belong in a championship race.

Now, the Filly and Mare sprint. OK, I understand one could argue they sort of " deserve " their own race...however.....fillies and mares have fared VERY well in the BC Sprint over the years and so in reality this race will further rob the BC Sprint of its overall quality.

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

I don't think it's a bad idea. If they can get more full fields and competitive races, it's a good idea to me.

The dirt mile maybe steals a few interesting contenders from the Sprint, but overall my guess these are different from the Classic. In this year's classic, who would have gone in the Mile instead?

The F&M Sprint is the best of the 3. Sure, fillies & mares HAVE done well in the past in the Sprint, but when was the last winner? It's been 5 years since Xtra Heat almost got it done. There's been an average of what, 1 female starter per year?

The 2YO turf race is less interesting for US horses, as most of them will be coming in off a maiden win and that's about it. There's what, 2-3 grass stakes for 2YO's before October 1st?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

The 2YO turf race is less interesting for US horses, as most of them will be coming in off a maiden win and that's about it. There's what, 2-3 grass stakes for 2YO's before October 1st?

I guarantee once the BC Juvenile Turf exists for a couple years that will no longer be the case. There will be more demand to card 2yo turf racing and the stakes races that already exist will likely see purse increases to get graded status.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

I

The dirt mile maybe steals a few interesting contenders from the Sprint, but overall my guess these are different from the Classic. In this year's classic, who would have gone in the Mile instead?

?

Possibly:
Sun King
Lawyer Ron
George Washington
Brother Derek

Not that these horses were the best in the field but some contributed to the pace factor.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole idea is basically a poor one....but it's the BC....the enemy of major league racing...... so why would it be a good idea?

Starting from the top....the mile. This will dilute the Classic ( not seriously ) and the Sprint in two detrimental ways. One, it will take away somewhat interesting contenders and two it will open the sprint up to more useless vermin that, in theory, doesn't belong in a championship race.

Now, the Filly and Mare sprint. OK, I understand one could argue they sort of " deserve " their own race...however.....fillies and mares have fared VERY well in the BC Sprint over the years and so in reality this race will further rob the BC Sprint of its overall quality.

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

I completely agree with this and others that had similar opinions.

[JJP]

The only logical reason I can think of for adding a 2YO turf race is they are clearly trying to get more European participation. Seen how few of our 2YO races are carded on the grass, you'll probably see a bunch of recent Maiden graduates running in the Breeders Cup.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole idea is basically a poor one....but it's the BC....the enemy of major league racing...... so why would it be a good idea?

Starting from the top....the mile. This will dilute the Classic ( not seriously ) and the Sprint in two detrimental ways. One, it will take away somewhat interesting contenders and two it will open the sprint up to more useless vermin that, in theory, doesn't belong in a championship race.

Now, the Filly and Mare sprint. OK, I understand one could argue they sort of " deserve " their own race...however.....fillies and mares have fared VERY well in the BC Sprint over the years and so in reality this race will further rob the BC Sprint of its overall quality.

Now, the 2YO turf race.....I'm sorry, what exactly is the US program that leads up to this race? Some turf maiden races seems to be about it. So this is great, we now have a BC race that caters to US horses that are too slow to run on dirt and Euros. OK, fine, I will personally enjoy this race and maybe the Euros do sort of deserve a race of their own, but don't try and fool me that this was a race that demanded to be run. I like the $250K filly version of this race they are already running and see no reason they shouldn't have run the same purse for the boys. Labeling it a " BC " race does not make any of the contestants better or more important horses.

I agree with this completely. The Classic and Sprint will suffer in quality and depth. There aren't 42 horses of grade one quality to fill the three races and quite a bit of the horses in the Classic wouldn't go there if there was a mile race instead. There just aren't that many quality 10f males in this country anymore. The much larger purse of the Classic will ensure that it will still attract a large field but it's going to be mostly filler as many of the quality horses end up in the mile.

Second, there is absolutely no need for a f/m sprint. There have been too many fillies that have done well in the open sprint. Horses like Very Subtle, Safely Kept, Meafara, Pine Tree Lane, Xtra Heat, Desert Stormer, Soviet Problem, and Honest Lady didn't need to have a separate race. At this distance, females are more than capable of running with the boys at an equal level.

There is a another problem that I haven't seen mentioned on here. Nobody has mentioned this part of the press release:

The expanded Oct. 26 program will include three $250,000 stakes funded by Breeders' Cup. They are a 1 1/16-mile event for 3-year-olds fillies, a one-mile turf race for 2-year-olds fillies, and a six-furlong test for 2-year-olds. Total purses for the Friday card will be $4 million, which makes it the second-richest day of racing in North American behind Breeders' Cup day.

What they forgot to add was that they are trying to get these three races increased to $1 million and make them BC races also. That would give us 14 races over the two days. I don't understand for the life of me why they would be adding an 8.5f race for 3yo fillies. Have they been having too hard a time winning the Distaff and I just haven't noticed? Let me think for a second.

Life's Magic-2nd 1984
Lady's Secret-2nd 1985
Sacahuista-1st 1987
Winning Colors-2nd 1988
Gorgeous-2nd 1989
Go for Wand-1st 1990
Dance Smartly-1st 1991
Versailles Treaty-2nd 1990
Hollywood Wildcat-1st 1993
Heavenly Prize-2nd 1994
Ajina-1st 1997
Sharp Cat-2nd 1997
Banshee Breeze-2nd 1998
Spain-1st 2000
Surfside-2nd 2000
Unbridled Elaine-1st 2001
Farda Amiga-2nd 2002
Elloluv-2nd 2003
Ashado-1st 2004

So they've won seven (eight if u count Go for Wand) and (again counting GfW), have taken 19 of 46 exacta spots in the history of the race. Yeah, they are really at a huge disadvantage and need their own race. This would impact the Distaff much more than a dirt mile will impact either the Sprint or Classic. It's stupid.

I think the whole idea is stupid. Let's see. Take the BC coming off of it's worst ratings in history and dilute the races even more and spread them out over another day. I mean, if nobody watches on one day, surely they'll circle the televisions for two days, especially since the first day will be full of secondary races. Brilliant.

[blackthroatedwind]

Apparently they think they will be able to fool people by substituting quantity for quality.