Authentic Retired

[Dahoss]

Because that post contained the word hoss so much I now side with owners who retire prematurely.

That’s how ridiculous that act is. Whatever he thinks I automatically want to take the opposite side.

[King Glorious]

I've long said that the sport was going the wrong way. The owners have paid lots of money for these horses and they have the right to do what they want to with them. That's all I ever get told. I think that having no consideration for what fans want is what's ruining the game.

This is just a thought so some of you that know much more about this can feel free to rip it to shreds but.......could there ever be some kind of rule that says you can't breed a horse until after their 4yo season? Or until after they have run 20 races?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

...
This is just a thought so some of you that know much more about this can feel free to rip it to shreds but.......could there ever be some kind of rule that says you can't breed a horse until after their 4yo season? Or until after they have run 20 races?

My understanding is that the Jockey Club makes the rules. For example, there is the rule that a horse isn't a thoroughbred if it was the result of artificial insemination. I don't see why they couldn't impose an age requirement for the horse's sire. Breeders and owners might squawk, but it would be a level playing field and would be great for the game, IMO.

http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/r...jcRuleBook#one

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

My understanding is that the Jockey Club makes the rules. For example, there is the rule that a horse isn't a thoroughbred if it was the result of artificial insemination. I don't see why they couldn't impose an age requirement for the horse's sire. Breeders and owners might squawk, but it would be a level playing field and would be great for the game, IMO.

http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/r...jcRuleBook#one

So a 2-year-old runs 3 times, wins an MDN an NW1, and a G1 with BSF of 90 100 and 110 gets hurt cant race again and now cant be bred at all or has to wait till he is 4?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by freddymo

So a 2-year-old runs 3 times, wins an MDN an NW1, and a G1 with BSF of 90 100 and 110 gets hurt cant race again and now cant be bred at all or has to wait till he is 4?

It’s not perfect by any means but what is happening now doesn’t work when it comes to growth of the sport. In other sports, they have eligibility requirements. You can’t enter the NBA draft until you’re 19 or have been out of high school for a year. There are guys that could come in right away and play and that rule hurt a guy like Kevin Durant and whatever team would have wanted to draft him but it was put in place for the betterment of the game. In the NFL, you have to be at least three years removed from high school.

It doesn’t have to necessarily be wait til they are four. Smart people can get together and figure it out. But if the current way is driving people away, it makes zero sense to just continue with the status quo. Just on here, you have people that have been fans for decades talk about how they are losing interest. If you can’t keep the interest of those already in the house, how much chance is there of bringing new people in?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It’s not perfect by any means but what is happening now doesn’t work when it comes to growth of the sport. In other sports, they have eligibility requirements. You can’t enter the NBA draft until you’re 19 or have been out of high school for a year. There are guys that could come in right away and play and that rule hurt a guy like Kevin Durant and whatever team would have wanted to draft him but it was put in place for the betterment of the game. In the NFL, you have to be at least three years removed from high school.

It doesn’t have to necessarily be wait til they are four. Smart people can get together and figure it out. But if the current way is driving people away, it makes zero sense to just continue with the status quo. Just on here, you have people that have been fans for decades talk about how they are losing interest. If you can’t keep the interest of those already in the house, how much chance is there of bringing new people in?

My loss of interest has nothing to do with horses retiring early. And don’t think horses running longer will intrigue new people.

As much as I love the sport of racing, the gambling part is what has always drawn me in. Frankly, the gambling product for the most part sucks. Small fields, races that aren’t competitive, move up trainers that perform miracles and betting a horse at 4-1 in the gate and seeing his odds change to 2-1 out of the gate are a few of the things that has me taking an extended break.

The Breeders Cup, that ridiculous track they souped up for no reason and performances like Knicks Go was the push I needed.

I’m not crazy about horses running so infrequently and retiring prematurely, but I think the only way to bring in new blood is make the gambling part as attractive as possible. It’s not very attractive right now, IMO. If it wasn’t for contests I would’ve been gone years ago. But racing should take a long look in the mirror because if someone like me is fed up, how many others are there that are as well? I eat, sleep and drink this sport.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

My loss of interest has nothing to do with horses retiring early. And don’t think horses running longer will intrigue new people.

As much as I love the sport of racing, the gambling part is what has always drawn me in. Frankly, the gambling product for the most part sucks. Small fields, races that aren’t competitive, move up trainers that perform miracles and betting a horse at 4-1 in the gate and seeing his odds change to 2-1 out of the gate are a few of the things that has me taking an extended break.

The Breeders Cup, that ridiculous track they souped up for no reason and performances like Knicks Go was the push I needed.

I’m not crazy about horses running so infrequently and retiring prematurely, but I think the only way to bring in new blood is make the gambling part as attractive as possible. It’s not very attractive right now, IMO. If it wasn’t for contests I would’ve been gone years ago. But racing should take a long look in the mirror because if someone like me is fed up, how many others are there that are as well? I eat, sleep and drink this sport.

A lot of this is the same way I feel. I don't think running them longer fixes all the issues but it's one that I think would help. In other sports, you develop a connection with the players early and you follow their careers. Just last night, I watched a high school game on ESPN featuring the top ranked junior and top ranked senior. I had never seen either play in a game but after last night, I'm following both of their careers. I think that being able to latch on to a horse is important when it comes to fans. Imagine if any new fans watched and saw the horse win the Juvenile and they heard the people saying how he's the early Derby favorite and now they have to wait four months to see him run again then he runs five or six total races next year? It's hard to keep interest doing that. Then you saw Authentic win the Classic and can't wait to see him run again only to find out it won't happen.

I remember back in 1991 watching the older horse division. They had a series of races that were connected and offered bonuses to horses that earned the most points. I'm sure some of you remember it. I thought that was fun to follow. Create some sort of Triple Crown for older horses. Create one in every division. Do something to connect the races instead of each track and each race operating independently. There are just so many ways to advance the sport but I think it starts with not breeding so many horses and not having so many races. If you create more incentives to race on and maybe more competition in the breeding shed by limiting breeding opportunities, I think you get a better product on the track and that's what drives the sport.

[goodcopy]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

My loss of interest has nothing to do with horses retiring early. And don’t think horses running longer will intrigue new people.

As much as I love the sport of racing, the gambling part is what has always drawn me in. Frankly, the gambling product for the most part sucks. Small fields, races that aren’t competitive, move up trainers that perform miracles and betting a horse at 4-1 in the gate and seeing his odds change to 2-1 out of the gate are a few of the things that has me taking an extended break.

The Breeders Cup, that ridiculous track they souped up for no reason and performances like Knicks Go was the push I needed.

I’m not crazy about horses running so infrequently and retiring prematurely, but I think the only way to bring in new blood is make the gambling part as attractive as possible. It’s not very attractive right now, IMO. If it wasn’t for contests I would’ve been gone years ago. But racing should take a long look in the mirror because if someone like me is fed up, how many others are there that are as well? I eat, sleep and drink this sport.

I used to be the guy that loved the graded stakes and top tier horses that some "Boutique" tracks like Del Mar Keenland and to some extent Saratoga(though they generally have decent large field's )but now I gamble more on larger fields when i hit it hard(Derby,Breeders Cup,opening day at Del Mar accepted).
I think the most important thing is to get these tracks to run fewer races and 8+ larger fieldss

[moses]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

My loss of interest has nothing to do with horses retiring early. And don’t think horses running longer will intrigue new people.

As much as I love the sport of racing, the gambling part is what has always drawn me in. Frankly, the gambling product for the most part sucks. Small fields, races that aren’t competitive, move up trainers that perform miracles and betting a horse at 4-1 in the gate and seeing his odds change to 2-1 out of the gate are a few of the things that has me taking an extended break.

The Breeders Cup, that ridiculous track they souped up for no reason and performances like Knicks Go was the push I needed.

I’m not crazy about horses running so infrequently and retiring prematurely, but I think the only way to bring in new blood is make the gambling part as attractive as possible. It’s not very attractive right now, IMO. If it wasn’t for contests I would’ve been gone years ago. But racing should take a long look in the mirror because if someone like me is fed up, how many others are there that are as well? I eat, sleep and drink this sport.

Reduced takeout would be a good start (and consistent takeout across tracks would be nice). More cross country parlays would probably help (I assume reducing the time frame for a pick 5 from 2+ hours to 30-45 minutes would draw in some interest.) It's hard for a network to broadcast 5+ hours of horse racing in a day from a single track but is it an easier product to sell if that network only has to use up an hour to broadcast 5 races from 2-3 tracks?

I definitely don't have all the answers but I'm sure someone out there has looked into this in much greater detail than I have...and for whatever reason, it seems like the people in the industry are content to let the sport slowly fade away.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by freddymo

So a 2-year-old runs 3 times, wins an MDN an NW1, and a G1 with BSF of 90 100 and 110 gets hurt cant race again and now cant be bred at all or has to wait till he is 4?

That's right. And that horse will still have, what, 15+ years to breed instead of 17+ years?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

That's right. And that horse will still have, what, 15+ years to breed instead of 17+ years?

Unfortunately I don’t think this is a very realistic solution

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

That's right. And that horse will still have, what, 15+ years to breed instead of 17+ years?

Ok got it. So 3 guys chip in 50 grand apiece buy two yr old in training for 150k the colt is a stud cracks a leg cant race again starts breeding at 4 just because and dies of colic at 5 and we tell the guys those are the breaks, thx for playing. Seems like a good idea if you want to prevent anyone from winning

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ok got it. So 3 guys chip in 50 grand apiece buy two yr old in training for 150k the colt is a stud cracks a leg cant race again starts breeding at 4 just because and dies of colic at 5 and we tell the guys those are the breaks, thx for playing. Seems like a good idea if you want to prevent anyone from winning

This is another classic case of Freddy not seeing the 24-pack for the can of PBR.

Why are we worried about the stallion career of a horse who couldn't stay sound enough to make it through half of a campaign?

The purpose of imposing limits on the age of 1st year stallions would be to prevent this very type of horse from passing on his unsoundness.

[gamblin4ever]

Make less stakes races and put conditions on them. Right now trainers can pick their spots to run. How many times do you see a G1 horse run against 4 glorified allowance horses in a graded stakes race.

[Alabama Stakes]

About time they fired a jock who doesn’t listen to instructions.

[Kasept]

He's a son of the game's top sire that stands for $225,000 (at the same farm) and is fully booked.

He won the Derby and Breeders' Cup Classic, an accomplishment achieved by Sunday Silence, Unbridled & American Pharoah. Curlin (Preakness) and A.P. Indy (Belmont) were similarly Classic-Classic winners.

Of course you retire him. And you don't have to apologize either.

It gives Spendthrift 4 levels of Into Mischief for breeders to approach with the big horse ($225k), Authentic ($75k) Goldencents ($15k) & Maximus Mischief ($7.5k).

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Kasept

He's a son of the game's top sire that stands for $225,000 (at the same farm) and is fully booked.

He won the Derby and Breeders' Cup Classic, an accomplishment achieved by Sunday Silence, Unbridled & American Pharoah. Curlin (Preakness) and A.P. Indy (Belmont) were similarly Classic-Classic winners.

Of course you retire him. And you don't have to apologize either.

It gives Spendthrift 4 levels of Into Mischief for breeders to approach with the big horse ($225k), Authentic ($75k) Goldencents ($15k) & Maximus Mischief ($7.5k).

I think everyone understands it’s a business decision. It’s the way business is being conducted that people have an issue with.

If I was worth a few billion I’d get more joy in watching my horses run than retiring after 8 races while totally healthy. Then again I also wouldn’t have felt the need to start something like Myracehorse to further line my pockets. Different strokes I guess.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think everyone understands it’s a business decision. It’s the way business is being conducted that people have an issue with.

If I was worth a few billion I’d get more joy in watching my horses run than retiring after 8 races while totally healthy. Then again I also wouldn’t have felt the need to start something like Myracehorse to further line my pockets. Different strokes I guess.

Basically, it's a bizarre, anarchic industry with disparate participants that have uniquely personal and unusual motivations.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Basically, it's a bizarre, anarchic industry with disparate participants that have uniquely personal and unusual motivations.

Indeed it is.

For me personally, if they were just more upfront about it, instead of the “there wasn’t a lot more to accomplish,” quip I wouldn’t care a bit.

Owners put on the show (with the bettors) so I understand cashing in when you can. This just seems different. Either way Hughes is an interesting guy and I encourage people to read up on him. The OJ connection not withstanding he seems like an okay guy.