Current state of Thoroughbred Racing....

[capbettr]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Getting rid of medications is an idealistic way of thinking. Instead we should highly monitor and regulate all medications. I would have no problem turning over my medication records to the proper authorities and subject my horses to out of competition testing. Many would resist but the reality of horses having many minor physical issues and reality of needing to treat them medically is real.

I own a horse in Maryland and had a conversation with my trainer the other day about what you mention above, Cannon Shell. With the focus being on trying to find a way to take the accidents out of medication overages, I suggested that all meds be made accountable for. Could all meds in a vets box be controlled by the state and made so that a vet could only have in his box what he had been issued by a state vet, for example?

Part of our conversation was on Pletcher's Mepivacaine (sp?) pos that he's serving now. My trainer couldn't think of a good reason that the Mep should have even been in a vet's box, much less administered. If that truely is the case, then why not make it so a vet can only have state issued drugs, with those drugs and their administration fully traceable through records that show which horse received what and how much, and then have the vet's box checked each day on the way in and out of each stable area?

I'm sure there's lots of pro's and con's to what I've suggested but, geez, we have to start somewhere.....

Thoughts?

[sumitas]

We know medicines have a different affect on kids than adults. So banning drugs for 2 year olds might not be a bad idea.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by phystech

I own a horse in Maryland and had a conversation with my trainer the other day about what you mention above, Cannon Shell. With the focus being on trying to find a way to take the accidents out of medication overages, I suggested that all meds be made accountable for. Could all meds in a vets box be controlled by the state and made so that a vet could only have in his box what he had been issued by a state vet, for example?

Part of our conversation was on Pletcher's Mepivacaine (sp?) pos that he's serving now. My trainer couldn't think of a good reason that the Mep should have even been in a vet's box, much less administered. If that truely is the case, then why not make it so a vet can only have state issued drugs, with those drugs and their administration fully traceable through records that show which horse received what and how much, and then have the vet's box checked each day on the way in and out of each stable area?

I'm sure there's lots of pro's and con's to what I've suggested but, geez, we have to start somewhere.....

Thoughts?

Though it is my opinion that the states wont give up control of the regulations, that is in no way an endorsement of any states rules, regulations, regulators or vets. I served on a medication commitee that met with the KY horse racing authority in an attempt to draft reasonable and enforceable rules concerning medications,withdrawls, thresholds, shockwave, etc. We met 4 times with some enlightenment on both sides. However this whole event was a charade on the states part to say that they had met with us (horsemen) and we approved what they were doing. Though we managed to tweak some of the proposed rules (many were so far off...) almost nothing of any value was accomplished. It was a political move on the part of the KHRA and they emphasized this by saying that they did not have to meet with us ut they did it as though they were extending some sort of olive branch. The whole medication issue is very complex, there are so many variables and the racing commissions just dont want to spend the time, money, or effort on it. Taht is why so many states supposedly adopted the Racing Consortium's model rules, though few states actually abide by them. Also understand that the state vets in most of the states are not exactly experts in anything other than taking a fairly low paying job that no smart vetwould want. There are exceptions and these people work hard but I doubt that most of them have he ability to be of any help concerning medication.

I'm not sure why your trainer would have said that Mepiviciane would not be found in a vets box. It is commonly used as a nerve block to try to determine the exact point of acute lameness. The withdrawl time is fairly consistent in most jurisdictions and every vet that I have ever used carried it.

The biggest problem when keeping track of records and such is the cost. Who picks up the cost of hiring and training people to go through the vets trucks, keep records, etc. It would be a huge job and it would cost quite a bit of money to do. The tracks would try to put it onto the states, the states would cry poor and as usual nothing gets done. It is probably a pretty good idea to have full disclosure in regards to medication but there are barriers.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not sure why your trainer would have said that Mepiviciane would not be found in a vets box. It is commonly used as a nerve block to try to determine the exact point of acute lameness. The withdrawl time is fairly consistent in most jurisdictions and every vet that I have ever used carried it.

I was going to say this too....mepivacaine/carbocaine is a great product when used properly for diagnosing an exact area of soreness/lameness when you just can't figure out what is going on with a horse...

[Left Bank]

Well,whatever racing is going to do,it had better hurry up and clean up it's act,because I have a feeling the feds will get involved sooner or later.They are all over Baseball right now,and,You think Elliot Spitzer was bad,wait till the next "Hotshot"Running for office decides to pick on racing before his or her campaign.All I have to say is they better get it together and real soon because the sh_t is gonna hit the fan soon!!

[Ghostzapperfan]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

Well,whatever racing is going to do,it had better hurry up and clean up it's act,because I have a feeling the feds will get involved sooner or later.They are all over Baseball right now,and,You think Elliot Spitzer was bad,wait till the next "Hotshot"Running for office decides to pick on racing before his or her campaign.All I have to say is they better get it together and real soon because the sh_t is gonna hit the fan soon!!

I am afraid that this is very true. Federal officials don't seem to have anything better to do than have Congressional hearing on baseball and passing riders to amendments to ban internet gambling, so getting involved in the racing medication issue wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Maybe some of what was said at the Racing Symposium will be put into action. At least it was brought out into the open...

ALostTexan

[docicu3]

As a physician I will always have trouble accepting this one because in humans the first action of furosamide or Lasix is a response in twenty minutes after pushing the drug. The entire pulmonary capillary circulature dilates allowing for better matching of blood flow and open alveoli units. When the blood volume or pressure is too high, the lungs have areas where there is excessive blood flow but no air gets there or what we respiratory dweebs call V/Q mismatch or shunting.

With a good slug of a loop diuretic such as Lasix the V/Q mismatch is reversed in 30 minutes to an hour.Put a more simplistic way the patient can breathe better.....what could possibly be better for a horse!!!!

Although the increase in capillary area is useful in stopping bleeding in a horses feet and legs the effect in the lungs is profound and thus the horse is more comfortable running.

If the horse hasn't bled they really shouldn't be able to use it......oh well enough clinical stuff time to go play the GG speed bias of the last week. Early Speed is king!!!

I'll post plays later today....

DrDave

[Ghostzapperfan]

Thanks, Doc, for the interesting post, and good luck today at GG...

ALostTexan

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

With a good slug of a loop diuretic such as Lasix the V/Q mismatch is reversed in 30 minutes to an hour.Put a more simplistic way the patient can breathe better.....what could possibly be better for a horse!!!!

Although the increase in capillary area is useful in stopping bleeding in a horses feet and legs the effect in the lungs is profound and thus the horse is more comfortable running.



DrDave

Therefore if the drug is having the intended effect of stopping bleeding and allowing the horse to run more comfortably and the fact that virtually all horses are running on Lasix kind of makes the argument for its use. Defining a regular bleeder is compliated because virtually all horses will show some signs of blood in the trachea (throat) after racing or a workout. I was always puzzled by the theory that we should wait for a horse to bleed really badly before giving Lasix. It is like saying that you dont need to carry a spare tire with you untill after you have been stuck on the side of the road without one.

[capbettr]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Though it is my opinion that the states wont give up control of the regulations, that is in no way an endorsement of any states rules, regulations, regulators or vets. I served on a medication commitee that met with the KY horse racing authority in an attempt to draft reasonable and enforceable rules concerning medications,withdrawls, thresholds, shockwave, etc. We met 4 times with some enlightenment on both sides. However this whole event was a charade on the states part to say that they had met with us (horsemen) and we approved what they were doing.

Thanks for the info, Cannon. Excellent points all around.

I may have misunderstood my trainer about the Mep - I'll have to go back and have the conversation again to make sure I understood correctly.

I understand all of your points, especially the ones about a lot of the changes that need to be made being cost prohibitive. And yet, I can't help but wonder if for states like Maryland, where we're playing on an uneven field because we don't have slots, if maybe the horsemen could go to the state and ask for funding for new positions for people to oversee a more intensified regulation of the administration of meds to the horses. More oversight and scrutiny of how meds are used could potentially be a selling point by the MD tracks to attract more bettors to the MD product.

Would horseplayers be attracted to playing MD tracks if they knew there was less of a chance of misuse of meds here? If so, it could potentially lead to larger pools, which in turn would fund larger purses, etc......

Or is that simply a pipedream?

[packerbacker7964]

start banning trainers for + test. I'm not talking a simple 6 months I mean years. 2,3 hell even 5 for serious stuff. Mullins, Norman, Assman and Lake get'em out of here for a long time. I agree they need to get the drugs cut down to just a few and each state have the same rules. But you can't do that because then your cutting jobs in each state and then you'd have to vote and then well it just won't happen unless the owners of the same tracks limited what drugs could be used at their tracks. Now that's an idea worth talking about.