BC Sprint Purse Being Withheld

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

We all know what Ellis was doing here. He was giving the horse as much steroid as he thought he could possibly get away with and stay within the rules. This wasn't therapeutic. But he didn't know as much as he thought he did about using it and it burned him.

How do you tell the owner you have to scratch from the race you've been doping...err...planning for all year?

Craig.. I get that despite being fully aware of the difference you're eager to paint every horseman with the same brush, but to call the Ellis training plan 'doping' is a disservice to the broader discussion.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Craig.. I get that despite being fully aware of the difference you're eager to paint every horseman with the same brush, but to call the Ellis training plan 'doping' is a disservice to the broader discussion.

"Training Plan"? Ok the definition is now in place, a Training Plan is defined and can include the administration of banned race day drugs on a specific date based on guidelines set forth for a previously manufactured drug that is no longer available.

Let's see if I can use it in a sentence. We should claim that horse, he will go into my training program, and will race better.

In my training program we see horses able to train harder and eat well even if they have trouble keeping weight on when trained aggressively.

Once a horse is in my training program they race every 70 days and test clean of any administered compounded banned race day anabolic steroids.


good grief please dont suggest that calling a spade a spade detracts from potential for the Industry to redine the definition of a "training program circa 2016"

Do I think Ellis cheated NO. He is smart great trainer. He learned what to do legally to give his barn and connections the best opportunity to compete and earn. Did he push envelope to edge cross the line, and make a horrid decision, of course.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Do I think Ellis cheated NO. He is smart great trainer. He learned what to do legally to give his barn and connections the best opportunity to compete and earn. Did he push envelope to edge cross the line, and make a horrid decision, of course.

He wasn't as smart as he thought he was in the end though.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He wasn't as smart as he thought he was in the end though.

Yeah it's going to leave a mark. I don't think Miller or Ellis are cheating, until they fix the loopholes its within guidelines and guidelines are set forth to educate people what is and isnt acceptable tolerance to medication use. Very hard to fault anyone who knows the rules and comes as close as they possible can to breaking them without crossing line. The real puzzle in this is why the heck did he take such a risk given the info he had. Now the jig is up for all these 70 day steroid guys, I bet they would have paid him to scratch the horse so not to further expose the recipe..lol Kidding

[Benny]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...test/96406784/

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Craig.. I get that despite being fully aware of the difference you're eager to paint every horseman with the same brush, but to call the Ellis training plan 'doping' is a disservice to the broader discussion.

You are painting me with a broad brush. I'm addressing one guy that I think was trying to get the maximum amount of steroids into a horse before the big race. It isn't like this is the only horse he does it with. A recently claimed filly went on the 60 day vet list two days after being claimed. He does this all the time. I just do see any way this is therapeutic.

He found a way to get around the alleged "steroids ban", until he didn't. You know who else does it a lot? Peter Miller. I don't see Bob Baffert's name popping up repeatedly on the vet's list for 60 days. I don't see lots of other name trainers, so I can only assume they aren't using steroids. It isn't a broad brush at all, it is about pointing out the guys that are doing shady things playing around the edges of the rules.

And yes, I agree there were other issues regarding this race that should be addressed. Are they more or less serious? I'm not sure to be honest. The horse never should have been allowed to race in the BC Sprint. But let us not forget the root of the problem...Ellis routinely using steroids to train, all the while skipping G1 races to do it.