AGSC: PA Derby up to G1; Wood, Blue Grass down to G2

[jnunan4759]

Been thinking all day on this. The Graded Stakes Committee does all grading retroactively. It also does it with prejudice. The PA Derby was a classic example.

However, when we downgrade all the Derby preps to GR 2, then we have a bunch of Gr 2 horses running in the Derby, Preakness and Belmont. How can we call those races Gr 1 when Gr 2 horses win it ? We would have to downgrade the KY Derby and all the others.

I see Andy's point for sure. It's breeding, for sure. Do I think more of a Wood win than a Woodward No. I'm OK with all preps being GR 2 at most. However, how can we have a Gr 1 KY Derby with a Gr2 horse winning it ? Lets be fair.

Grading is a breeding thing. We, as bettors, don't need it. They need it for catalogues.

[Konk]

How can you call a prep a Gr1 when no Gr1 horses run in in it?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Konk

How can you call a prep a Gr1 when no Gr1 horses run in in it?

The first part makes sense, but the second doesn't.

Two of the last four PA Derby winners won the Wood. Both of them also won at least one other Grade 1. One of them won two of the country's most prestigious Grade 1s.

The Wood should be a Grade 2 if all the other final KY Derby preps are Grade 2s. Something that I believe makes sense. However, downgrading one without all the others makes no sense.

[philcski]

Let's not forget the Wood was a GII from 1994-2002, including the last time the winner also won the Kentucky Derby. There's been a lot of good winners in the timeframe since then, including a Belmont winner, a smashing Met Mile winner, and perhaps the greatest sire of this generation- but unfortunately there's also been a lot of injuries and not the greatest supporting casts. The past two years have been particularly terrible other than Frosted, but three years ago was solid (Wicked Strong, Samraat, Social Inclusion, Effinex). It's cyclical... when a Wood or Blue Grass winner comes back to win a TC race the trainers will flock back to New York and Kentucky. Quite frankly, the weather probably plays a part in the avoidance, since prepping for the Triple Crown has become an effort in walking on eggshells. I get the logic for the downgrade, even if it's disappointing.

If it were me and I were forced to downgrade a race run on that day, it would have been the Carter.

I'm actually surprised the Hollywood Derby survived the downgrade axe, despite our very own Cherie (with Andy in tow) running 1-2, with the low purse and odd spot on the calendar. California Chrome may have singlehandledly propped that one this year.