2 year old campaign poll!!!!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It's too bad that everyone is so into doing what the herd is doing these days. Before Barbaro did it, people were saying that a horse couldn't win the Derby off a 5-week layoff. But then it happened. I guarantee that if Neil Drysdale was on here before he ran Prized in the BC Turf, his first turf start, u all would have been telling him how dumb he was or how far off he is or how he has no comprehension, etc. I mean, the horse was good enough to beat Sunday Silence on the dirt just a few months earlier and now they were trying him on the grass? Just a few years ago, people were saying that Smarty Jones needed to be tested in the big races and that going the Arkansas route was not the way to get prepared. Now, many are saying it's the best way to go because of him and Afleet Alex. So many people in this industry are copycats and want to do what they've seen recently be successful. Tell people that u want to run a horse back in a week and they look at u crazy. Horses used to do it all the time. Don't tell me they can't anymore. It's not the horses of today that can't do the things that they used to do. It's the owners/trainers of today that don't have the courage to try them. They are worth so much money today that nobody takes the risk in trying to train them and race them ambitiously anymore. They just look for the safe routes. I could just imagine the comments that would be made on this thread if a horse blew out in 33 and change a couple of days before the Belmont like Risen Star did. I could just imagine the comments that would be made if a horse today was to run in the all three TC races...with races IN BETWEEN them. It's ok though. I don't mind all of the things u say about me. I just feel bad for u all that u have such limited vision and can't see the possibilities that are out there. The reason we don't see many great horses anymore aren't because the horses aren't great.....it's because so many people with limited vision won't allow them to be. Like Lava Man this year. I mean, why take a shot at history in the Arlington Million when u can take the safe route in the Pacific Classic? In two years, nobody will remember what Lava Man did this year. I've never understood why so many people are afraid to think and try things different.

I may not be a trainer but I've been around plenty of them. Some pretty good ones too. My ideas may be far off according to today's game. But that's because today's game is far off from the way the game used to be. And it used to be better.

You've specifically brought up preparing a horse for the derby, when challenged on it you cite all kinds of other references about unrelated topics.
Again, who are the horses that have taken the approach you mention all the way to derby success? I doubt that this was the path taken long ago in the good old days either.

Its not a matter of herd mentality either, its just that people have to work with reality, not theory.

You must have noticed time and again the huge performance improvements that some horses make on their second or thirds starts. Why do you suppose that happens when they have been in training for so long? the reason is effects of the racing experience and conditioning show up immediately. A horse doesn't get into 10F condition running 8F.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

You've specifically brought up preparing a horse for the derby, when challenged on it you cite all kinds of other references about unrelated topics.
Again, who are the horses that have taken the approach you mention all the way to derby success? I doubt that this was the path taken long ago in the good old days either.

Its not a matter of herd mentality either, its just that people have to work with reality, not theory.

You must have noticed time and again the huge performance improvements that some horses make on their second or thirds starts. Why do you suppose that happens when they have been in training for so long? the reason is effects of the racing experience and conditioning show up immediately. A horse doesn't get into 10F condition running 8F.

If a horse can't get into 10f condition running 8f, how can a horse get into 12f condition running 10f?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If a horse can't get into 10f condition running 8f, how can a horse get into 12f condition running 10f?

Mainly because none of the horses going from 10 to 12 furlongs have the opportunity to race at 11 furlongs in between. If everyone has to stretch out two furlongs then of course someone is going to have to win. If one horse is going from 8-10 though he is at a disadvantage to the horses that have already had a chance to go 9 and gain that extra conditioning.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Mainly because none of the horses going from 10 to 12 furlongs have the opportunity to race at 11 furlongs in between. If everyone has to stretch out two furlongs then of course someone is going to have to win. If one horse is going from 8-10 though he is at a disadvantage to the horses that have already had a chance to go 9 and gain that extra conditioning.

Exactly, someone has to win is the way I would put it.

[King Glorious]

I'm not talking about a situation like the Belmont Stakes. I'm talking about when Prized ran in the BC Turf at 12f after never having run past 10f and all of his competitors were experienced at running 12f.

Didn't Frankel always say that he knew GZ could run 10f before he had ran his 9f races?

I say that if a trainer doesn't know after a couple of 8f races whether or not he's got a horse that should be able to handle 10f, he's not a trainer that I would want to work with.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm not talking about a situation like the Belmont Stakes. I'm talking about when Prized ran in the BC Turf at 12f after never having run past 10f and all of his competitors were experienced at running 12f.

Didn't Frankel always say that he knew GZ could run 10f before he had ran his 9f races?

I say that if a trainer doesn't know after a couple of 8f races whether or not he's got a horse that should be able to handle 10f, he's not a trainer that I would want to work with.

your ability to change subjects and direction makes me dizzy...
i surrender.

my guess on the trainer comment is that there are not many of them that would want to work with you either. i would recommend you get your license and start putting your theories to the test.

[smartyalex]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

your ability to change subjects and direction makes me dizzy...
i surrender.

my guess on the trainer comment is that there are not many of them that would want to work with you either. i would recommend you get your license and start putting your theories to the test.

TOUCHE!!!! Also, I enjoyed KG's quote "So many people in this industry are copycats and want to do what they've seen recently be successful". Well, there is a key word in that quote that needs some explanation to KG.......SUCCESS!!!!!!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If a horse can't get into 10f condition running 8f, how can a horse get into 12f condition running 10f?

There is seldom a need to get into 12F condition. I also think there aren't many horses racing over here on dirt that really carry 12F condition, so by default, the horses with the best 9-10F condition do the best at 12 F.