Another breakdown at Turfway

Three days in a row at Turfway there has been a breakdown.
Wow, this stuff is just great.
Blue Eyes, I agree with what you are saying, running sore horses will break em down. But this stuff won't stop it either, its a con game like the balc construction paper the Nigerians sell you(washing solution costs extra).

[The Bid]

hahaha, we will send you 15 million, but you need to pay us 100k for the bleach to clean off the money. What buffoon will go for that deal, sign me up

Originally Posted by oracle80

Three days in a row at Turfway there has been a breakdown.
Wow, this stuff is just great.
Blue Eyes, I agree with what you are saying, running sore horses will break em down. But this stuff won't stop it either, its a con game like the balc construction paper the Nigerians sell you(washing solution costs extra).

And that's exactly what I'm saying. Polytrack never claimed to keep horses from breaking down. Three days in a row of horses breaking down. You know what that really means? It means Polytrack doesn't ward off the butcher trainer. The butcher trainer "thinks" his sore horse won't break down on this surface. A few years ago a friend of mine was killed at Turfway. Had Polytrack been installed could it been avoided? I doubt it. It was clearly the trainers fault that horse broke down. Of course, the track took the blame but not everyone knew the true story behind the horse and trainer.

[repent]

score one for the good guys.

this crap is not only toxic, but it is only marginally safer than real dirt.
Im sorry, but horses' lives are not important enough to spend $10M on a bunch of toxic crap.
I say the more breakdowns on polytrack, the better.
those morons spent $10M for NOTHING.

Repent

[The Bid]

Riders delayed Turfways second raced today due to bad surface. Couple reports from guys Ive spoke with was the track was horrible.

Getting balled up in the feet, and just not even.

Stuff is revolutionary

[repent]

well,
whats really cool about this crap is that it freezes into clumps when it gets cold and then it melts into goo when it gets hot.
really adaptable stuff.

of course is some labatory in KY, it performed great when the air conditioners cooled the air to 65 degrees.
if we can just control the weather, this stuff is going to work great.


Repent

[The Bid]

What else can polytrack be used for? I wonder if we can all put our heads together and think of a few practical uses for millions of dollars in poly that will be ripped out in the next couple years.

[repent]

put it in the fridge and have polyclump fights with it.

for those of us that dont have snow down here in the south, we can just build a polyman with it during winter.


Repent

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Three days in a row at Turfway there has been a breakdown.
Wow, this stuff is just great.
Blue Eyes, I agree with what you are saying, running sore horses will break em down. But this stuff won't stop it either, its a con game like the balc construction paper the Nigerians sell you(washing solution costs extra).

Oracle, You have said several times that polytrack is just a con game. Do you have any evidence of that?

There is a ton of evidence that shows exactly the opposite. The horses are staying much sounder and the fields are bigger as a result. You can talk to any tainer out here and they will tell you that they see a huge difference in their horses. The horses come back every morning and their legs are cold and tight, wheras before they would come back with heat in their feet and ankles. For you to call it a con game is absurd.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Oracle, You have said several times that polytrack is just a con game. Do you have any evidence of that?

There is a ton of evidence that shows exactly the opposite. The horses are staying much sounder and the fields are bigger as a result. You can talk to any tainer out here and they will tell you that they see a huge difference in their horses. The horses come back every morning and their legs are cold and tight. For you to call it a con game is absurd.

Its ABSOLUTELY a con game as is has been MARKETED!!!
Its been marketed as "maintenance free" wrong!!! Its been marketed as averting catastrohic breakdowns WRONG!!
Now you can tell me in reality we should know that these thinsg arent true, but both I and Sent To Std have shown you the presentations and websites by soem of these marketers, and they are lying.
It does need maintenance, it can be screwed up, and breakdowns will continue to happen.
So, its a con game.
Anything sold with tricks and half truths or flat out lies, is a con game.

[sumitas]

Thank paispg and Rupert for reasoned responses. And tx Kasept for reminding us about decorum.

[The Bid]

Rupert,

Do the three trianers I spoke with today count towards the "any trainer" you mentioned? I spoke with 3 today and each were less than satisfied with the clumping, and uneven surface at TWP.

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupert,

Do the three trianers I spoke with today count towards the "any trainer" you mentioned? I spoke with 3 today and each were less than satisfied with the clumping, and uneven surface at TWP.

I can name 5 guys who have told me its ok to train on but that they hate it to race on.
Of course they can't tell the press that.
In any case, its been marketed as maintenance free and I can post links like Stud has, and its not stopping breakdowns.
And waht about Sadlers comments last week about the foot problems?
I can show you 2-4 trainers in Cali who now zoom every 6 days instead of every 7. They think its a liscense to beat on em even harder than they were already beating on em.
It aint gonna help em in the long run.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I can name 5 guys who have told me its ok to train on but that they hate it to race on.
Of course they can't tell the press that.
In any case, its been marketed as maintenance free and I can post links like Stud has, and its not stopping breakdowns.
And waht about Sadlers comments last week about the foot problems?
I can show you 2-4 trainers in Cali who now zoom every 6 days instead of every 7. They think its a liscense to beat on em even harder than they were already beating on em.
It aint gonna help em in the long run.

A lot of guys out here are a little concerend that the track has gotten so fast. They weren't expecting it ot be so fast. It wasn't nearly this fast a month ago. The good news is that the track still seems to be very safe.

I read Sadler's comments. If we start hearing this same thing from several trainers, then I would start to be concerned. But I'm not going to be too concerned about one trainer. Sadler paid $800,000 for that horse. That's a lot of money to pay for a horse that is by a sire(Millenium Wind) that stands for $5,000. We don't know what Sadler's motives are. Maybe Sadler doesn't want to take the blame so he is blaming the track surface. Who knows? I'm not saying that this is the case. I have no idea. Sadler may be correct about the track. Maybe we will start to hear similar things from other trainers. But as of right now, 99% of the guys at Hollywood are happy with the surface.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupert,

Do the three trianers I spoke with today count towards the "any trainer" you mentioned? I spoke with 3 today and each were less than satisfied with the clumping, and uneven surface at TWP.

I have said that there have been real problems at Woodbine and Turfway. I don't know if polytrack(with the current ingredients) works well in really cold weather. For all I know, it may not hold up in cold weather. They may have a serious problem. I have read about the problems you are talking about. I'm not surprised that you have talked to trainers that are concerned with the clumping at Turfway.

The only thing I'm saying is that it works well in places where the weather is moderate. Here at Hollywood Park, it is a huge improvement over what we had before.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I have said that there have been real problems at Woodbine and Turfway. I don't know if polytrack(with the current ingredients) works well in really cold weather. For all I know, it may not hold up in cold weather. They may have a serious problem. I have read about the problems you are talking about. I'm not surprised that you have talked to trainers that are concerned with the clumping at Turfway.

The only thing I'm saying is that it works well in places where the weather is moderate. Here at Hollywood Park, it is a huge improvement over what we had before.

Richie,we are getting fields of 10,12,and 14 horses out here in December.Something is going right.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I have said that there have been real problems at Woodbine and Turfway. I don't know if polytrack(with the current ingredients) works well in really cold weather. For all I know, it may not hold up in cold weather. They may have a serious problem. I have read about the problems you are talking about. I'm not surprised that you have talked to trainers that are concerned with the clumping at Turfway.

The only thing I'm saying is that it works well in places where the weather is moderate. Here at Hollywood Park, it is a huge improvement over what we had before.

And are you telling me that a better surface couldnt have been established at 1/4 the price by ripping out the cushion and putting down a new surface as well?
Magna spent 5 mill supoosedly to redo Gulf(and part of that was the cost of reconfiguration) and the horsemen rave about the surface there now.
Its a money game with this stuff.

[The Bid]

I gotcha Rupert.

I dont understand why a track like Hollywood wouldnt just reinstall a conventional dirt track. I think all of these tracks jumped the gun on mass installation of synthetic surfaces. Like Oracle said.... I think they are fine to train over, I just dont care for the racing over them. What really pisses me off is the tracks cracking down on the trainers to the point they cant speak their mind. If they are going to have a polytrack they need to take the trainers opinions to heart, work together to perfect the surface. When Poly was first laid at Turfway the jockeys bitched about the kick back, they wanted it watered down....managment basically said if you dont like it dont ride here. That is the attitude from Turfway, whether the people in here want to believe it or not.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its ABSOLUTELY a con game as is has been MARKETED!!!
Its been marketed as "maintenance free" wrong!!! Its been marketed as averting catastrohic breakdowns WRONG!!
Now you can tell me in reality we should know that these thinsg arent true, but both I and Sent To Std have shown you the presentations and websites by soem of these marketers, and they are lying.
It does need maintenance, it can be screwed up, and breakdowns will continue to happen.
So, its a con game.
Anything sold with tricks and half truths or flat out lies, is a con game.

I highly doubt that they said that there will never be a catostrophic breakdown on the surface. I don't know what their exact quote was but I'm sure that they did not guarantee that a horse would never break down.

And the surface is practically maintenance free, so I don't think that they lied abot that.

The main problem is that they may not have done enough testing in adverse weather conditions. Based on the problems at Woodbine and Turfway, I do wonder how well this product holds up in really cold weather.

Anyway, if you don't like polytrack, that is fine. That's your business. But the vast majority of owners and trainers love it. They have been very happy with it so far. The horses have been staying much sounder. That's all that really matters.