Another breakdown at Turfway

[pmayjr]

Guys... in the bend it's gonna take years of speculation, denails, and trends to truly see if Poly is any safer than dirt. I'm still drinkin the kool aid right now that the stuff is safer.

Three days in a row at Turfway there has been a breakdown.
Wow, this stuff is just great.
Blue Eyes, I agree with what you are saying, running sore horses will break em down. But this stuff won't stop it either, its a con game like the balc construction paper the Nigerians sell you(washing solution costs extra).

[The Bid]

hahaha, we will send you 15 million, but you need to pay us 100k for the bleach to clean off the money. What buffoon will go for that deal, sign me up

Originally Posted by oracle80

Three days in a row at Turfway there has been a breakdown.
Wow, this stuff is just great.
Blue Eyes, I agree with what you are saying, running sore horses will break em down. But this stuff won't stop it either, its a con game like the balc construction paper the Nigerians sell you(washing solution costs extra).

And that's exactly what I'm saying. Polytrack never claimed to keep horses from breaking down. Three days in a row of horses breaking down. You know what that really means? It means Polytrack doesn't ward off the butcher trainer. The butcher trainer "thinks" his sore horse won't break down on this surface. A few years ago a friend of mine was killed at Turfway. Had Polytrack been installed could it been avoided? I doubt it. It was clearly the trainers fault that horse broke down. Of course, the track took the blame but not everyone knew the true story behind the horse and trainer.

[repent]

score one for the good guys.

this crap is not only toxic, but it is only marginally safer than real dirt.
Im sorry, but horses' lives are not important enough to spend $10M on a bunch of toxic crap.
I say the more breakdowns on polytrack, the better.
those morons spent $10M for NOTHING.

Repent

[The Bid]

Riders delayed Turfways second raced today due to bad surface. Couple reports from guys Ive spoke with was the track was horrible.

Getting balled up in the feet, and just not even.

Stuff is revolutionary

[repent]

well,
whats really cool about this crap is that it freezes into clumps when it gets cold and then it melts into goo when it gets hot.
really adaptable stuff.

of course is some labatory in KY, it performed great when the air conditioners cooled the air to 65 degrees.
if we can just control the weather, this stuff is going to work great.


Repent

[The Bid]

What else can polytrack be used for? I wonder if we can all put our heads together and think of a few practical uses for millions of dollars in poly that will be ripped out in the next couple years.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Three days in a row at Turfway there has been a breakdown.
Wow, this stuff is just great.
Blue Eyes, I agree with what you are saying, running sore horses will break em down. But this stuff won't stop it either, its a con game like the balc construction paper the Nigerians sell you(washing solution costs extra).

Oracle, You have said several times that polytrack is just a con game. Do you have any evidence of that?

There is a ton of evidence that shows exactly the opposite. The horses are staying much sounder and the fields are bigger as a result. You can talk to any tainer out here and they will tell you that they see a huge difference in their horses. The horses come back every morning and their legs are cold and tight, wheras before they would come back with heat in their feet and ankles. For you to call it a con game is absurd.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Oracle, You have said several times that polytrack is just a con game. Do you have any evidence of that?

There is a ton of evidence that shows exactly the opposite. The horses are staying much sounder and the fields are bigger as a result. You can talk to any tainer out here and they will tell you that they see a huge difference in their horses. The horses come back every morning and their legs are cold and tight. For you to call it a con game is absurd.

Its ABSOLUTELY a con game as is has been MARKETED!!!
Its been marketed as "maintenance free" wrong!!! Its been marketed as averting catastrohic breakdowns WRONG!!
Now you can tell me in reality we should know that these thinsg arent true, but both I and Sent To Std have shown you the presentations and websites by soem of these marketers, and they are lying.
It does need maintenance, it can be screwed up, and breakdowns will continue to happen.
So, its a con game.
Anything sold with tricks and half truths or flat out lies, is a con game.

[sumitas]

Thank paispg and Rupert for reasoned responses. And tx Kasept for reminding us about decorum.

[The Bid]

Rupert,

Do the three trianers I spoke with today count towards the "any trainer" you mentioned? I spoke with 3 today and each were less than satisfied with the clumping, and uneven surface at TWP.

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupert,

Do the three trianers I spoke with today count towards the "any trainer" you mentioned? I spoke with 3 today and each were less than satisfied with the clumping, and uneven surface at TWP.

I can name 5 guys who have told me its ok to train on but that they hate it to race on.
Of course they can't tell the press that.
In any case, its been marketed as maintenance free and I can post links like Stud has, and its not stopping breakdowns.
And waht about Sadlers comments last week about the foot problems?
I can show you 2-4 trainers in Cali who now zoom every 6 days instead of every 7. They think its a liscense to beat on em even harder than they were already beating on em.
It aint gonna help em in the long run.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rupert,

Do the three trianers I spoke with today count towards the "any trainer" you mentioned? I spoke with 3 today and each were less than satisfied with the clumping, and uneven surface at TWP.

I have said that there have been real problems at Woodbine and Turfway. I don't know if polytrack(with the current ingredients) works well in really cold weather. For all I know, it may not hold up in cold weather. They may have a serious problem. I have read about the problems you are talking about. I'm not surprised that you have talked to trainers that are concerned with the clumping at Turfway.

The only thing I'm saying is that it works well in places where the weather is moderate. Here at Hollywood Park, it is a huge improvement over what we had before.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its ABSOLUTELY a con game as is has been MARKETED!!!
Its been marketed as "maintenance free" wrong!!! Its been marketed as averting catastrohic breakdowns WRONG!!
Now you can tell me in reality we should know that these thinsg arent true, but both I and Sent To Std have shown you the presentations and websites by soem of these marketers, and they are lying.
It does need maintenance, it can be screwed up, and breakdowns will continue to happen.
So, its a con game.
Anything sold with tricks and half truths or flat out lies, is a con game.

I highly doubt that they said that there will never be a catostrophic breakdown on the surface. I don't know what their exact quote was but I'm sure that they did not guarantee that a horse would never break down.

And the surface is practically maintenance free, so I don't think that they lied abot that.

The main problem is that they may not have done enough testing in adverse weather conditions. Based on the problems at Woodbine and Turfway, I do wonder how well this product holds up in really cold weather.

Anyway, if you don't like polytrack, that is fine. That's your business. But the vast majority of owners and trainers love it. They have been very happy with it so far. The horses have been staying much sounder. That's all that really matters.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Guys... in the bend it's gonna take years of speculation, denails, and trends to truly see if Poly is any safer than dirt. I'm still drinkin the kool aid right now that the stuff is safer.

Where are you getting your information? It's not going to take years to figure out if it's safer. They already know that it's safer. It's not rocket science to see how your horses come back every morning. Over the polytrack, the horses come back in good shape every morning. They come back and their legs are cold and tight. There's not any doubt that it's much safer. The horses are staying so much sounder that field size is already increasing quite a bit. Even at Hollywood this meet, the average field size has gone up by about one horse per race. That's already a big improvement.

The main problem with polytrack is that there are still a lot of things that they don't know about it. They really don't know that much about how it will hold up and perform under different conditions. They really don't know that much about the best way to maintain it under different conditions. They are kind of just going by trial and error right now.

Anyway, we know that polytrack does well in moderate conditions but based on the issues at Woodbine and Turfway, maybe polytrack does not hold up that well in the extreme cold. Maybe they need to tweek the ingredients a little bit for tracks where the weather is really cold.

Polytrack is still a brand new thing. I'm sure there will be some problems with it here and there but I don't think the problems will be anything that they can't deal with. Just because there will be some minor problems here and there, it hardly means that polytrack is dead. Quite to the contrary, most trainers think it's the future of racing.

Here is what a trainer at Hollywood Park told me the other day when I asked him about some of the minor problems with the track over at Hollywood. He said, "When the cushion-track at Hollywood is at its worst, it's still better than the surface at Santa Anita at it best."

So despite some of the problems they have had with polytrack, overall the owners and trainers are very happy with it. If you want to call polytrack "an experiment", the experiment has gone very well so far despite a few bumps in the road. In other words, people in the industry are more confident now in polytrack, than they were a year or two ago. You guys are totally misreading the situation if you think that polytrack has not been a big success so far. Overall, people are extremely happy with it. In fact, it has been recieved so well thus far, that more and more tracks are now planning on putting it in. As you have heard, Arlington is probably going to put it in.

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Guys... in the bend it's gonna take years of speculation,
denials, and trends to truly see if Poly is any safer than dirt.

Any improvements towards safety should not rest solely on the racing surface.
Improvements to the starting gate has long been overlooked.

For those of us who watch the head-on replays of the starts,
it's laughable that absolutely nothing was done
after Barbaro "gate breakthrough" in the Preakness
only to reload and severly injure himself on National Television.

It's only a matter of time before the gate comes into play
in another major televised race.

Sad but true.