My Eclipse Ballot.. (Updated with Winners, Voting)

[blackthroatedwind]

Way too many voters are completely unqualified or simply don't take their responsibility seriously. Main Sequence beat Twilight Eclipse in two photos for half of his wins. In no way is he a more deserving Horse of the Year than Bayern. It is an indefensible "opinion" and no matter how much BS people want to spew that our turf racing, at the highest level, compares to turf racing overseas, it is simply untrue. If anything, Main Sequence proves that.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Way too many voters are completely unqualified or simply don't take their responsibility seriously. Main Sequence beat Twilight Eclipse in two photos for half of his wins. In no way is he a more deserving Horse of the Year than Bayern. It is an indefensible "opinion" and no matter how much BS people want to spew that our turf racing, at the highest level, compares to turf racing overseas, it is simply untrue. If anything, Main Sequence proves that.

One thing seems certain, it will be more of an upset for a dirt horse to win older male than it used to be the other way around. What is that like 4-5 years in a row.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Way too many voters are completely unqualified or simply don't take their responsibility seriously. Main Sequence beat Twilight Eclipse in two photos for half of his wins. In no way is he a more deserving Horse of the Year than Bayern. It is an indefensible "opinion" and no matter how much BS people want to spew that our turf racing, at the highest level, compares to turf racing overseas, it is simply untrue. If anything, Main Sequence proves that.

That is true. It is also true he beat the horse that finished 2nd in the Arc and then won the HK Vase. It is also true that Bayern just barely beat a horse that had never run on dirt by a nose. Main Sequence is not great by any means, but he did have a very good season. The thing that is most clear though is that the silly season is at last over and we can get back to actual races.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Let's not debate the terrible voters. They are bad. The horse with the toughest and most comprehensive campaign won. California Chrome. He raced nine times, won 6 stakes, 5 Graded stakes, 4 G1 stakes over two different surfaces and missed in the Classic by a neck. The horse who did the most actually won for a change.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Let's not debate the terrible voters. They are bad. The horse with the toughest and most comprehensive campaign won. California Chrome. He raced nine times, won 6 stakes, 5 Graded stakes, 4 G1 stakes over two different surfaces and missed in the Classic by a neck. The horse who did the most actually won for a change.

In your opinion he had the "toughest and most comprehensive campaign." I don't agree. Bayern travelled much more, covered different distances successfully, and beat CA Chrome in the two races that they met. I thought his campaign was better. It's a matter of opinion.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In your opinion he had the "toughest and most comprehensive campaign." I don't agree. Bayern travelled much more, covered different distances successfully, and beat CA Chrome in the two races that they met. I thought his campaign was better. It's a matter of opinion.

Ditto

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In your opinion he had the "toughest and most comprehensive campaign." I don't agree. Bayern travelled much more, covered different distances successfully, and beat CA Chrome in the two races that they met. I thought his campaign was better. It's a matter of opinion.

Bayern traveled much more? They both ran at CD and in the Preakness.

CC ran in the Belmont, Bayern the Haskell. Then they both ran in Pennsylvania.

Did I leave out a race? I think Bayern ran in Arkansas, which would give him one more out of state race, but that doesn't seem like he traveled much more.

Also, Bayern won two of the three meetings, not two of two.

The resumes were pretty comparable if you look at them side by side, though Bayern did have one more race. Two of those ten starts were a MSW and an alw.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Bayern traveled much more? They both ran at CD and in the Preakness.

CC ran in the Belmont, Bayern the Haskell. Then they both ran in Pennsylvania.

Did I leave out a race? I think Bayern ran in Arkansas, which would give him one more out of state race, but that doesn't seem like he traveled much more.

Also, Bayern won two of the three meetings, not two of two.

The resumes were pretty comparable if you look at them side by side, though Bayern did have one more race. Two of those ten starts were a MSW and an alw.

I don't believe it is as static as you are suggesting. The company that CC kept in California vs. what Bayern faced later in the year is telling. How many Kentucky Derby runners even raced again in graded company, much less did anything after the TC?

I maintained all year that it was the weakest TC crop that I have seen in a good while.

Bayern beat CC on the square in Pennsylvania. You can (and many have) make a case against Bayern for the break in the BC, but you then have to equally make the same case that Ring Weekend took away any possible chance Bayern may have had in the Preakness.

CC never showed up again after faltering in the Belmont. Oh, unless, with a straight face, you are going to make the case that the Hollywood Derby was a true Grade 1 test of chanpions Then yes, after being soundly schooled in the BC, he DID manage to hold off the world beater Lexie Lou by diminishing lengths in the Hollywood Derby.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Bayern traveled much more? They both ran at CD and in the Preakness.

CC ran in the Belmont, Bayern the Haskell. Then they both ran in Pennsylvania.

Did I leave out a race? I think Bayern ran in Arkansas, which would give him one more out of state race, but that doesn't seem like he traveled much more.

Also, Bayern won two of the three meetings, not two of two.

The resumes were pretty comparable if you look at them side by side, though Bayern did have one more race. Two of those ten starts were a MSW and an alw.

You left a lot out. Bayern also went to Belmont on Belmont Stakes day...and ran one of the best dirt races of the year in winning the Woody Stephens. He also travelled to Saratoga after the Haskell to contest the Travers. So, yes, he travelled significantly more than CA Chrome.

[cakes44]

2 things that I'm guessing a bunch of voters could not forget:

1. CC's TC races.
2. Bayern getting depantsed in the Travers.

I think we're giving some voters too much credit in thinking that they might have taken things like travel into account. They are the same people that voted Zenyatta over Blame. And while CC's G1 turf win wasn't impressive whatsoever and he beat nothing, I think it also gave some voters the excuse they were looking for to vote CC #1.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You left a lot out. Bayern also went to Belmont on Belmont Stakes day...and ran one of the best dirt races of the year in winning the Woody Stephens. He also travelled to Saratoga after the Haskell to contest the Travers. So, yes, he travelled significantly more than CA Chrome.

Yeah, I did forget those.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In your opinion he had the "toughest and most comprehensive campaign." I don't agree. Bayern travelled much more, covered different distances successfully, and beat CA Chrome in the two races that they met. I thought his campaign was better. It's a matter of opinion.

I would argue when it comes to voters and 3 year old awards that 1 Preakness win trumps wins in the BC and Penn Derby. Whether that is fair or not I think thats the way it is seen.