The Importance of Being Earnest

[my miss storm cat]

My question deals with integrity.

I'm curious as to what you all think...

... NOT about the Eclipse Awards, not about Zenyatta, Blame and Goldikova, not about Life at Ten... only this.

However, the question remains: should individuals be excluded from consideration for the year-end honors if any of their activities in the past 12 months reflect poorly upon the sport -- in spite of otherwise award-worthy accomplishments for the season?

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=6015947

Thoughts?

[herkhorse]

I don't know the answer, but maybe we need another caption contest.

[AeWingnut]

ummm, how would Pletcher know to scratch Life at 10?
or is it because he entered the loser?

We should just award every category to team Zenyatta and get it over with

[Rudeboyelvis]

Would Velasquez ever get another mount for the connections if he refuses to ride a horse that a trainer sent out in the Breeder's Cup??!!

As far as we know, the horse was and is structurely sound and fit - just wasn't feeling it that day - whatever it was... reation to meds, feed alergy, etc....

that said, the the horse passed the vet check - TWO vet checks actually - in the paddock and at the gate - so the jock took the gate under direction of the trainer,and promptly eased the horse when he knew she was feeling stressed. He did precisely what any jockey would do, and probably does at least once or twice every racing day in this country.

His biggest crime was that happened on one of the biggest days in NA racing, and there happened to be a microphone in his face on his way to the gate.

If you want to vilify Pletcher, that's another argument entirely, but at the end of the day, the stewards and the on track vet make the call to scratch a horse if they feel it shouldn't run - not the jock.

The jock has the right to refuse a mount, not the responsibility to make that call.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

I don't know the answer, but maybe we need another caption contest.

OKay next time anyone sees some pics of race goers with cows on their heads or hats that look like they were made out of giant pieces of fruit and concrete and tanks and such we'll do it again!

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

OKay next time anyone sees some pics of race goers with cows on their heads or hats that look like they were made out of giant pieces of fruit and concrete and tanks and such we'll do it again!

I was talking about the photo in the article goofball!


I agree with Matt. Most of us (thankfully) just play to have fun. I could care less about the eclipse awards. How many would have noticed all that happened with Life At Ten, if it wasn't on a big day and all over espn.

[Cannon Shell]

I could argue that Zenyatta's 2010 schedule could be subject to lacking in the best interests of racing....but I won't bother

The trainers eclipse is only available to about 3 trainers with massive stables anyway. Excellence in training is not really what the award is about, it is about accumulation of numbers. So who really cares?

Nebulous standards confuse things further. Look at baseball's HoF.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

However, the question remains: should individuals be excluded from consideration for the year-end honors if any of their activities in the past 12 months reflect poorly upon the sport -- in spite of otherwise award-worthy accomplishments for the season?


Thoughts?

Yes.

[MaTH716]

Honestly who cares? The majority of the of people who watch this sport are nothing more than gamblers. That's all it comes down to. I think they honestly couldn't give a damn about anything execpt when is the post time for the next race going off somewhere.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Honestly who cares?

I do and I don't meaning I don't really care about the awards but since they're given out why should this kind of thing happen?

Historically, the majority has decided not to make an issue of ongoing or recent violations or incidents. In 2004, Pletcher received a 45-day suspension and $3,000 fine when the prohibited substance mepivacaine was found in one of his starters in August at Saratoga Race Course. He also received his first Eclipse. In 2008 when voters named Asmussen Outstanding Trainer, he was under investigation for a positive of the anesthetic lidocaine in one of his runners at Lone Star Park. He continued to make headlines in 2009 while fighting a six-month suspension and $1,500 fine for that situation (legal battles for which, according to attorney Karen Murphy, are "still pending" at this date), yet he took home his second straight award at the season's end.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I do and I don't meaning I don't really care about the awards but since they're given out why should this kind of thing happen?

Historically, the majority has decided not to make an issue of ongoing or recent violations or incidents. In 2004, Pletcher received a 45-day suspension and $3,000 fine when the prohibited substance mepivacaine was found in one of his starters in August at Saratoga Race Course. He also received his first Eclipse. In 2008 when voters named Asmussen Outstanding Trainer, he was under investigation for a positive of the anesthetic lidocaine in one of his runners at Lone Star Park. He continued to make headlines in 2009 while fighting a six-month suspension and $1,500 fine for that situation (legal battles for which, according to attorney Karen Murphy, are "still pending" at this date), yet he took home his second straight award at the season's end.

I don't know G. I consider myself a loyal fan of the game. But honestly, I really just couldn't give a damn. I couldn't care if they were eligible or not. If you really want to hurt these people, then you would enforce real penalties with real fines. Not letting them participate in what is really only a big popularity contest is nothing more than a farce. Also it would be nothing more than a gigantic insult for the people who play the game by the book. Basically these awards for the majority of fans are a non-event.

[Dylan Burke]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I don't know G. I consider myself a loyal fan of the game. But honestly, I really just couldn't give a damn. I couldn't care if they were eligible or not. If you really want to hurt these people, then you would enforce real penalties with real fines. Not letting them participate in what is really only a big popularity contest is nothing more than a farce. Also it would be nothing more than a gigantic insult for the people who play the game by the book. Basically these awards for the majority of fans are a non-event.

And this I do agree with.

[Dylan Burke]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Honestly who cares? The majority of the of people who watch this sport are nothing more than gamblers. That's all it comes down to. I think they honestly couldn't give a damn about anything execpt when is the post time for the next race going off somewhere.

I can't agree with this. If anyone wants a certain amount of integrity in this game, it is, whom you call "gambler". Those I know who invest their time, handicapping acumen and money in the endeavor to make a profit in Racing are no more "gamblers" than those who delve into the stock market and neither of these people want to be cheated.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Dylan Burke

I can't agree with this. If anyone wants a certain amount of integrity in this game, it is, whom you call "gambler". Those I know who invest their time, handicapping acumen and money in the endeavor to make a profit in Racing are no more "gamblers" than those who delve into the stock market and neither of these people want to be cheated.

I think it's a very grey area. Obviously we all want to believe that we are betting on what is a level playing field. But honestly do you think that is the truth?
Has there ever been a time where you saw a horse that you really didn't like based on his PP's, but felt you must include just because of the trainer? It's sad to say, but I really believe that bettors (and I know I have done it on many occasions) include the "this guy has the juice thinking" into their handicapping. Unfortunately it's something that has to be done. What consolation is it to the bettors if a trainer gets a positive weeks after the guilty horse knocked you or someone else out of their pick 4?
The bottom line is, there are only two options players have. Either find another type of gambling or just go with the flow and handicap accordingly.

[Dylan Burke]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think it's a very grey area. Obviously we all want to believe that we are betting on what is a level playing field. But honestly do you think that is the truth?
Has there ever been a time where you saw a horse that you really didn't like based on his PP's, but felt you must include just because of the trainer? It's sad to say, but I really believe that bettors (and I know I have done it on many occasions) include the "this guy has the juice thinking" into their handicapping. Unfortunately it's something that has to be done. What consolation is it to the bettors if a trainer gets a positive weeks after the guilty horse knocked you or someone else out of their pick 4?
The bottom line is, there are only two options players have. Either find another type of gambling or just go with the flow and handicap accordingly.

My disagreement with you, Math, was when you insinuated "gamblers...... don't care" about the integrity of the game & only care about the next posttime. I think we (and I'm including you) want to see a certain degree of honesty and , more importantly much harsher penalties for repeat drug abusers. It's a sad state of affairs when we have to abandon any handicapping principles & include the "juice" trainer in our picks. I, personally try to avoid betting races in which certain "supertrainers" have an entry; and definitely avoid betting tracks where these same type of trainer tend to congregate.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Honestly who cares? The majority of the of people who watch this sport are nothing more than gamblers. That's all it comes down to. I think they honestly couldn't give a damn about anything execpt when is the post time for the next race going off somewhere.

[AeWingnut]

Awards mean nothing to me. I won't care who is named trainer, jockey, horse whatever of the year one bit.

But

I agree that people that have been found guilty of something should be ineligible for an award.