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#1
03-18-2007, 10:01 PM
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Who would you contact about this cross?
It seems like folks on another forum who would normally know are coming up empty on a matter relating to AP Indy and Rahy and think asking someone else might be a good idea. If anybody here wants to think on this and comment that'd be great but if you don't know, there's a question I'd like to relay. Would you bother either Three Chimneys or Lanes End regarding this mating question (I've tried to describe it below)--if so which person at either farm and if not, who else might it be good to ask?
They're discussing the relative lack of crossing attempts for the lines of AP Indy and Rahy, particularly AP Indy/Rahy (and vice versa) but really there's some question about AP Indy/Blushing Groom, AP Indy/Halo, and Seattle Slew/Blushing Groom. One of the members has a yearling colt and one foal on the way which mix AP Indy and Halo so she's particularly interested though neither includes the Blushing Groom line. Are there obvious issues of pedigree that make these crosses less exciting? Do the size discrepancies between AP Indy and Rahy negate the attempt in their case and even if it does how does that explain the other crosses not really even being tried much if at all up close? Just for the sake of experiment the AP Indy mare Alanna was plugged into Three Chimney's Rahy hypomating and the GSV was 77.30. The mare offered up a Blushing Groom inbreeding which is also, as it turns out, not done much from what I can tell. Seattle Slew/Blushing Groom's handful of crosses resulted in Flute one time and Rags to Riches is actually not just a daughter of AP Indy, she's got Blushing Groom as the sire of her 2nd dam. Does this in any way lead you to suspect that it might not be such a horrific idea to cross two sirelines like AP Indy and Rahy especially if you got a filly? Are there physical problems other than size that make that a no no? And for a temporary end to the 20 questions say you did breed a mare by one stallion to the other stallion, would logistics suggest it'd be better to do an AP Indy mare to Rahy or would a Rahy mare not have a problem foaling an AP Indy what with Rahy's being smaller in general? 
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#2
03-18-2007, 10:14 PM
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#3
03-18-2007, 10:20 PM
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I would ask Robert Fox. He is a bloodstock agent and an expert on pedigree, breeding, etc. In the past, he has managed many stallions, and he currently manages several. I don't remember which ones.
Here's his website -- http://www.robertsfox.com/ Eric
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#4
03-18-2007, 10:40 PM
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#5
03-18-2007, 10:20 PM
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 You know, like at a party when someone decides rather than getting out of the boring conversation they'll just walk off because they don't know what to say? I guess the short version of my post is 'what's wrong with crossing AP Indy and Rahy?' Heh.
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#6
03-18-2007, 10:45 PM
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#7
03-18-2007, 10:54 PM
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We try so hard to put all these fancy numbers on something that is so incredibly complex. I realize there is lots of data to play with. This is much harder than a 6 month weather forecast. Tonights forecast dark, with scattered light in the morning. Unless a comet changes the earth's rotation.
It just never gets to the meat of the matter. We have sequenced the entire TB genome (Cornell took the lead) and we have not identified ONE GENE that has any significance in determing how well a horse will run on a track. Heck the fact we refer to breeding in terms like bloodstock, bloodlines indicates so much. The genetic material is passed on in the blood... how wrong so many people were. 1. Every sperm cell a single male produces is different genetically from every other sperm cell that same male produces. 2. Every egg cell a female produces is different genetically from every other egg cell that same female produces. Combine that with the tremendous effect that the environment plays in the regulation of gene expression at so many times in the development of a fertilized egg to a mature animal ready to run and you have a crapshoot. I realize we must make some generalizations, we must have something to grasp. But the sums of money paid for crapshoots amazes me. It is astounding. So I guess everybody can take a shot at it, and it does certainly appear to interest a whole bunch of folks. Its fun. But so inexact. Do bloodstock agents and breeders take genetics classes? Just so they can tell paying customers what they hope to, and what they cannot predict? Genetic counselors that advise couples on potential problems in offspring have to have PhD's in statistical genetic analysis. They of course have to give out sound statistical and probability numbers or they get the crap sued out of them. I personally would look at a female that showed great promise early in running, but got injured in a freak accident (nothing to do with unsoundness). A female that lost races due to bad racing luck (no graded wins) and got injured in the manner described, but is still able to procreate. I would look for the same in a male. The two animals that I found would be analyzed for genetic similarities in ancestors and I would hope they would be very different. And I would keep trying this method. If I had the time.
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#8
03-19-2007, 08:08 AM
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Once a stallion reaches a certain age they have established a reputation for crossing well on certain lines of mares and from that point on there are few who are willing to step outside the line and try something new...both AP Indy and Rahy are old enough for this to be true. Although the Rahy-Seattle Slew nick gets an A rating from Werk the actual result of mating an AP Indy mare to Rahy and a Rahy Mare to AP Indy (though somewhat limited in sample size) has failed to produce much...so why keep trying when one has a much chance of success crossing on the lines that continually produce runners.
That said...Pedigree Ann can give you a much better analysis than I ever could...you should contact her. 
__________________
 Seek respect, not attention.
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