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Old 04-04-2018, 06:27 AM
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Dunbar Dunbar is offline
The Curragh
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,962

At this point, before the next round of preps, I would gladly take Mendelssohn head-to-head in the Derby vs Good Magic or Audible or any prospect other than Bolt, Justify, or Magnum Moon. (That assumes McKinzie is no longer a Derby prospect--he's absent from the listed horses in Pool 4 of the Future Wager.)

Mendelssohn has already run further than any horse in the Derby field will have run, he's shown he can travel and win in the US, and the 106 BSF suggests he's competitive with the best of this class.
Curlin and Hard Spun finish 1,2 in the 2007 BC Classic, demonstrating how competing in all three Triple Crown races ruins a horse for the rest of the year...see avatar
photo from REUTERS/Lucas Jackson
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:51 AM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
Jerome Park
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,932

The five week turnaround from Dubai is of no concern?
Just more nebulous nonsense from BBB
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:47 PM
Kitan Kitan is offline
Gulfstream Park
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Other side of the globe
Posts: 1,204

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi View Post
I realize that the Kentucky Derby is more important than any other race Mendelssohn can win on the main track, but again, I don't think the Coolmore people hold their breath waiting to win that sort of race in North America.

Coolmore often simply tosses horses in their main US targets (on the dirt, that is), the BC Juvenile, BC Classic, and Kentucky Derby hoping for some blind luck.
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
The five week turnaround from Dubai is of no concern?
I can only speak for myself, but my comments were focused towards those somewhat disregarding his performance on Saturday. I have not thought about who I would pick for the Derby and at 6-1 he's not worth betting in futures, but at the moment I'm not too concerned about the turnaround. Let's look at the progression of horses O'Brien has run in the KY Derby.

Castle Gandolfo: only had one 8f prep a month out from the Derby and was running on dirt for the first time.
Johannesburg: only had one 7f prep a month out from the Derby.
Master of Hounds: ran 5th in Derby (first dirt start; Kingmambo x Sadler's Wells) and after only having one run that year (UAE Derby).
Daddy Long Legs: had only run/won the UAE Derby, and was previously beaten 19 lengths in the BC Juv Dirt.
Lines of Battle: ran 7th in Derby (first dirt start; War Front x Arch) and after only having one run that year (UAE Derby).

So, they have recently had two turf-bred runners run decent Derby races on their dirt debuts after coming from their lone prep race in Dubai. While I don't disagree that Coolmore is a breeding operation and at times just throws horses in dirt races for the sake of it, there is no question that they are also gunning for the prestige of beating Godolphin and the others to that elusive KY Derby win. They have undoubtedly learned from past experiences, as any top stable would. Mendelssohn is completely different to those that have run in the past. He has an elite dirt pedigree, has won on the surface, has shipped to the USA and won, is a G1 winner, and had been meticulously aimed/prepped for the KY Derby. They are not just hoping and giving him a chance; this has been his goal all winter/spring.

Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Appreciate your point of view Kitan especially being there live. Like I said the horse ran very well but still feel he had a perfect set up and has a lot to over come to win in Kentucky. There are some fast pace horses this year from what I've seen so far. Hope all is well
Meant that I have watched the races in real time (e.g. simulcast) with the exception of this past weekend! Hope all is well there also.
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:22 PM
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RolloTomasi RolloTomasi is offline
Oriental Park
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,607

Mendelssohn is completely different to those that have run in the past.
That's a bit exaggerated. Rather than a single prep, Mendelssohn has 2 with the first coming in a modest all-weather stakes where he just did enough to handle the 2 stablemates who followed him to Dubai and got trounced. I can't imagine that race was any more important than the private trials conducted at Ballydoyle with their past Derby hopes.

He has an elite dirt pedigree, has won on the surface, has shipped to the USA and won, is a G1 winner, and had been meticulously aimed/prepped for the KY Derby.
The sire of Mendelssohn is hardly elite dirt from a stud record perspective. While Scat Daddy did all his running on dirt (and was injured reportedly when trounced in the Kentucky Derby), he has sired exactly zero Grade 1 winners on the main track in NA. He was clearly more adept as a turf sire. Furthermore, Scat Daddy was also the sire of Daddy Long Legs and Scat Daddy himself was a son of Johannesburg, both of whom were likewise Coolmore Derby duds.

As for his Grade 1 status, the BC Juvenile Turf has been remarkably unproductive with respect to subsequent Grade 1 winners. Oscar Performance and Bobby's Kitten (who won the equally unproductive BC Turf Sprint) are the only subsequent Grade 1 winners from all the top finishers of that race. In fact, aside from Mendelssohn's 2 wins, only Oscar Performance (3 straight stakes) and Hootenanny (2 allowance wins) have won more than one race after winning the BC Juvenile Turf. Actually, 7 of the 11 winners of that race were winless the rest of their careers.
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