Dick Jauron/Turk Schonert/Jets/Dolphins playalong thread

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think they had the receivers to throw the ball down the field consistently. If I'm the incoming coach the last thing I want is Favre. The drama and decision making isnt worth it and when you have a guy that can pretty much do whatever he wants without recourse you have a bad situation. There is no future with Favre and they simply dont have the horses to win it all now. I would rather have Cassell than Favre in 2009 (never thought I would say that) for at least you know you have a competent QB who you can count on for a few years. If you dont want Cassell who exactly is out there that is better?

Cassel's trash. He throws dumpoffs to Welker and Kevin Faulk and once in a blue moon completes a deep ball to Moss. Being hopeful that the Jets will get a better deep threat (or start using Clowney more), I'd prefer Ratliff or Clemens. Unproven as they may be, at least they can make all of the throws.

[philcski]

I just wish the Bills had waited 24 more hours to determine Jauron's fate now that Shanahan is available.

The NFL is a fickle sport, isn't it? The Broncos were a terrible team this year and he had them in position to make the playoffs. I don't really understand the firing.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Cant they just franchise him and take a one year hit? I dont know why everyone is so down on Cassell. He may not be Brady but lets give the guy some credit considering he had to basically learn on the job in a very tough situation with almost no experience to fall back on. He played pretty well and will likely still get better.

I'm not as down on him as Joey is but I don't see him as the savior. He's got tools and brains which helps a lot but it'll be a huge shock going from Moss/Welker to average receivers for the Jets.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Cant they just franchise him and take a one year hit? I dont know why everyone is so down on Cassell. He may not be Brady but lets give the guy some credit considering he had to basically learn on the job in a very tough situation with almost no experience to fall back on. He played pretty well and will likely still get better.

They could franchise him. But that would be 12 million dollars for a backup QB. Thats 10% of your cap for a guy that you hope doesnt play. I highly doubt the Pats would do that unless they were pretty sure Brady wasnt going to be ready.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

I'm not as down on him as Joey is but I don't see him as the savior. He's got tools and brains which helps a lot but it'll be a huge shock going from Moss/Welker to average receivers for the Jets.

I dont buy the Moss/Welker arguement. They had no consistent running game all year. Welker is a good player but hardly a difference maker. He is an excellent slot receiver who gets matched up against the other teams third best corner or a safety. Moss had 11 catches the last 4 games. Cassell was certainly a better QB as the season went on and saying he is garbage is ridiclous. He may not be Johnny U but he is better than what the 49ers, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Browns, Raiders, Redskins or Lions run out there and he is proven to be a lot better than Clemmons. I have no idea how good Ratliff is but the fact no one bothered to draft him gives me an idea. The thing is there are only a few really top QB's and guys like cassell who can run an offense, manage a game and not make mistakes are valauble guys.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They could franchise him. But that would be 12 million dollars for a backup QB. Thats 10% of your cap for a guy that you hope doesnt play. I highly doubt the Pats would do that unless they were pretty sure Brady wasnt going to be ready.

He is not a backup until Brady returns and has proven worth. If Brady makes it back they could trade him for a number one pick or package of picks as opposed to just letting him walk.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is not a backup until Brady returns and has proven worth. If Brady makes it back they could trade him for a number one pick or package of picks as opposed to just letting him walk.

Call him what you will but he isnt a 12 million dollar QB any way you slice it and there is no team in their right mind that is going to trade anywhere close to a number one pick for the right to pay him 12 million dollars next year.

I think the pats would realize that there are cheaper short term alternatives than to pay Cassell that kind of money.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont buy the Moss/Welker arguement. They had no consistent running game all year. Welker is a good player but hardly a difference maker. He is an excellent slot receiver who gets matched up against the other teams third best corner or a safety. Moss had 11 catches the last 4 games. Cassell was certainly a better QB as the season went on and saying he is garbage is ridiclous. He may not be Johnny U but he is better than what the 49ers, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Browns, Raiders, Redskins or Lions run out there and he is proven to be a lot better than Clemmons. I have no idea how good Ratliff is but the fact no one bothered to draft him gives me an idea. The thing is there are only a few really top QB's and guys like cassell who can run an offense, manage a game and not make mistakes are valauble guys.

He isnt better than Jeff Garcia. He isnt better than Trent Edwards. He isnt better than Jason Campbell. He is not better than Marc Bulger. He isnt any better than Shaun Hill or Tyler Thigpen.

He has more talent around him than all those guys and he played a much easier schedule.

Game managers are a dime a dozen in the NFL. The problem is that most teams arent good enough running or defensively to win with a game manager. Thats when the expectations change. Thats when coaches get fired.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Call him what you will but he isnt a 12 million dollar QB any way you slice it and there is no team in their right mind that is going to trade anywhere close to a number one pick for the right to pay him 12 million dollars next year.

I think the pats would realize that there are cheaper short term alternatives than to pay Cassell that kind of money.

We will see

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He isnt better than Jeff Garcia. He isnt better than Trent Edwards. He isnt better than Jason Campbell. He is not better than Marc Bulger. He isnt any better than Shaun Hill or Tyler Thigpen.

He has more talent around him than all those guys and he played a much easier schedule.

Game managers are a dime a dozen in the NFL. The problem is that most teams arent good enough running or defensively to win with a game manager. Thats when the expectations change. Thats when coaches get fired.

He is better than Jeff Garcia 2008 version, he is as good as Trent Edwards and is better than Hill or Thigpen. Campbell stinks, cassell is way better than he is. Maybe you are forgetting that this guy NEVER played in college or the pros because of who he was playing behind. His season considering that fact alone shows his ability, period. Game managers are a dime a dozen? What league do you watch? He played an easier schedule? I understand that he is not a great QB but he played far better than average this season in his first game action ever. He is already pretty good and will get better. Jeff Garcia? Done. Tyler Thigpen? Huh? jason Campbell? Terrible decision maker. Wow.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We will see

LOL. i was just about to type the same thing. Swear.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is better than Jeff Garcia 2008 version, he is as good as Trent Edwards and is better than Hill or Thigpen. Campbell stinks, cassell is way better than he is. Maybe you are forgetting that this guy NEVER played in college or the pros because of who he was playing behind. His season considering that fact alone shows his ability, period. Game managers are a dime a dozen? What league do you watch? He played an easier schedule? I understand that he is not a great QB but he played far better than average this season in his first game action ever. He is already pretty good and will get better. Jeff Garcia? Done. Tyler Thigpen? Huh? jason Campbell? Terrible decision maker. Wow.

You put Jason Campbell behind that line with those receievers in that system and you tell me who would be better. You put any of those guys named in that situation and you tell me who would be better.

Its not just Welker and moss- Its the line and the system as well.

You dismiss Shaun HIll. What kind of line was Shaun Hill playing behind? Who did he have to throw it to?

Game Managers are a dime a dozen. The only thing is that the game managers need a solid team around them to be successful. Hence...game managers. What is Kerry Collins? What is Chad Pennington? Gus Frerotte? Those guys arent really asked to make plays but yet their teams are in the playoffs.

Cassell, at best, is in the bottom third of the league...At best.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You put Jason Campbell behind that line with those receievers in that system and you tell me who would be better. You put any of those guys named in that situation and you tell me who would be better.

Its not just Welker and moss- Its the line and the system as well.

You dismiss Shaun HIll. What kind of line was Shaun Hill playing behind? Who did he have to throw it to?

Game Managers are a dime a dozen. The only thing is that the game managers need a solid team around them to be successful. Hence...game managers. What is Kerry Collins? What is Chad Pennington? Gus Frerotte? Those guys arent really asked to make plays but yet their teams are in the playoffs.

Cassell, at best, is in the bottom third of the league...At best.

Interesting that you can make this statement that he is in the bottom 1/3rd of the league based upon an 90 QB rating in his only body of work that you or anyone else has ever seen. The guy who was named AFC offensive player of the week twice this year. You make it out like the offensive line makes the decisions with the ball. Cassell was sacked 47 times and SF gave up 55, not much of a margin considering how great NE's line supposedly is. Shaun Hill is and never has shown much, he isnt a rookie. Beating the Rams and a lame duck Skins team doesnt mean he is any good. Jason Campbell has always been a bad decision maker. Game managers are hardly a dime a dozen or guys like Collins wouldnt still be in the league and Vinny Testaverde wouldnt get a call every year. Pennington is the same guy who supposedly cant make the throws yet Miami hasnt been able to find a game manager for years before him. Gus Ferotte? you are kidding right?

Regardless of what people think there has never been a situation like this guy was put in and he played really well. Maybe i'm wrong but everytime I saw the guy play, he played well which is more than I can say for the QB of the Jets. Way more NFL QB's lose games than win them.

[Scav]

I would take Week 17 Cassell over Orton right now, no questions asked.

This was one of the rare times in where you could see him improve week to week. This was maybe because of the spotlight being on him, but how he played the last 6 games was unbelievable if you ask me, especially from a guy that threw 11 passes IN COLLEGE

Matt Cosell

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Interesting that you can make this statement that he is in the bottom 1/3rd of the league based upon an 90 QB rating in his only body of work that you or anyone else has ever seen. The guy who was named AFC offensive player of the week twice this year. You make it out like the offensive line makes the decisions with the ball. Cassell was sacked 47 times and SF gave up 55, not much of a margin considering how great NE's line supposedly is. Shaun Hill is and never has shown much, he isnt a rookie. Beating the Rams and a lame duck Skins team doesnt mean he is any good. Jason Campbell has always been a bad decision maker. Game managers are hardly a dime a dozen or guys like Collins wouldnt still be in the league and Vinny Testaverde wouldnt get a call every year. Pennington is the same guy who supposedly cant make the throws yet Miami hasnt been able to find a game manager for years before him. Gus Ferotte? you are kidding right?

Regardless of what people think there has never been a situation like this guy was put in and he played really well. Maybe i'm wrong but everytime I saw the guy play, he played well which is more than I can say for the QB of the Jets. Way more NFL QB's lose games than win them.

The fact that Cassell was even close to 50 sacks is more a testament to the QB than the line. That same unit allowed just 21 last year and their schedule was more difficult then. What was the difference? QB. Nothing changed in the line. The decisions are exactly what were the difference. Decisions to hold the ball too long can be just as deadly as throwing it to the other team.

There are plenty of game managers in the NFL. Frerotte isnt one? His team is in the playoffs and he isnt asked to make many plays. He is the definition of game manager.

I say he is in the bottom third of the league. I will go through twenty that are better:

Would you take him over Phillip Rivers? No.

Jay Cutler? No.

Donovan Mcnabb? No.

Tony Romo? No.

Eli Manning? No.

Peyton Manning? No.

Ben Roethlisberger? No.

Jake Delhomme? No.

Matt Schaub? No.

Matt Ryan? No.

Aaron Rodgers? No.

Carson Palmer? No.

Chad Pennington? No.

Marc Bulger? No.

Tom Brady? No.

Matt Hasselbeck? No.

Drew Brees? No.

Kurt Warner? No.


Those guys are all better and i dont think there is much to debate. These guys are right there and i think are better although its debatable:

Trent edwards
David Garrard
Joe Flacco
Shaun Hill
Kerry Collins

That leaves him at the bottom third...at best.

You give all those guys moss, welker and that line and system and you tell me what they would do.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Scav

I would take Week 17 Cassell over Orton right now, no questions asked.

This was one of the rare times in where you could see him improve week to week. This was maybe because of the spotlight being on him, but how he played the last 6 games was unbelievable if you ask me, especially from a guy that threw 11 passes IN COLLEGE

LOL. Orton was one of the worst QB's in the league. I would take Sam Cassell over Orton.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL. Orton was one of the worst QB's in the league. I would take Sam Cassell over Orton.

He was outstanding (possible Pro-Bowl) until he got his ankle messed up.....He will improve, at least he better...He is pinpoint short wise but is not accurate after 20 yards

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The fact that Cassell was even close to 50 sacks is more a testament to the QB than the line. That same unit allowed just 21 last year and their schedule was more difficult then. What was the difference? QB. Nothing changed in the line. The decisions are exactly what were the difference. Decisions to hold the ball too long can be just as deadly as throwing it to the other team.

There are plenty of game managers in the NFL. Frerotte isnt one? His team is in the playoffs and he isnt asked to make many plays. He is the definition of game manager.

I say he is in the bottom third of the league. I will go through twenty that are better:

Would you take him over Phillip Rivers? No.

Jay Cutler? yes

Donovan Mcnabb? No.

Tony Romo? yes.

Eli Manning? No.

Peyton Manning? No.

Ben Roethlisberger? No.

Jake Delhomme? yes.

Matt Schaub? yes.

Matt Ryan? No.

Aaron Rodgers? yes.

Carson Palmer? No.

Chad Pennington? No.

Marc Bulger? yes.

Tom Brady? maybe.

Matt Hasselbeck? yes.

Drew Brees? No.

Kurt Warner? f.uck yea.


Those guys are all better and i dont think there is much to debate. These guys are right there and i think are better although its debatable:

Trent edwards
David Garrard
Joe Flacco
Shaun Hill
Kerry Collins

That leaves him at the bottom third...at best.

You give all those guys moss, welker and that line and system and you tell me what they would do.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Scav

He was outstanding (possible Pro-Bowl) until he got his ankle messed up.....He will improve, at least he better...He is pinpoint short wise but is not accurate after 20 yards

At what point in the season was he outstanding or even remotely pro bowl?

I agree that there were points in the season where he looked to be adequate but never did i confuse him for being good let alone outstanding.