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#1
10-21-2006, 03:53 PM
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Dubbya continues to amaze
I don't know if anyone heard his radio address today wherein he accused Iraquis for attempting to effect the outcome of the upcoming elections with their "propaganda". Like they are to blame for the policies of the past three years and it's totally their fault that they resist occupation.
I'll continue to declare, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!" Let's hang a big banner on the side of an aircraft carrier as we run to the hardware store to buy duct tape...then come home to watch Repub tv commercials blaming the Dems for not catching Osama bin Laden. Propaganda...INDEED! Where ya been for the past six years? "We will win, we will stabalize the democracy there". Play the fools Dubbya. Maybe Foley, Ney or Delay can spin it better for ya than Rove this time. I ain't buyin! Iraq is lost. Admit it. So is Afghanistan. Admit that too. And, we are all so safe. Look at how good a job the DEA does preventing illegal drugs from crossing the borders...yeah right! Oh look!!! The wolf is coming! the wolf is coming! Believe me this time! This is too sad to be funny anymore. The mess on the floor isn't the product of my dog. It's yours Dubbya. Sure it stinks, but ya can't blame that foul smell on anyone else but yourself. Nice try! May the USA recover quickly from the disasters you've created. It was a great country...until you came along. 
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#2
10-21-2006, 04:17 PM
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It still is a great country. I can't stand the President, but I can't stand the people that root against our country either. It is almost as disgusting as a president lying all the time.
I hate to say it, but your post has all the signs of a person that is a divider not a uniter. You people that choose sides disgust me. It is almost like you care more about your party than your country. How anyone can be a registered democrat or republican is beyond me. People need to learn to think for themselves.
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#3
10-21-2006, 04:52 PM
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Myopic view=myopic views!
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#4
10-21-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
1) I agree that the USA is a great country. I really DO love the USA. That's why I post regarding the tragedy that's been inflicted upon it. 2) I am not a divider. I don't set policy. Wish I did, cuase if they'd have listened to my "take", we wouldn't have gone into a "war of choice" about three years ago. 3) I don't lie. The reality is that I love truth. If calling out manipulation for what it is disturbs you or others, too bad. Pull the blanket back over your head, but don't accuse me for attempting to show some reality. 4) I am neither a registered Republican nor a Democrat. I'm an Independent. In that regard, I agree with you. It's about time people start to become informed and start to think for themselves. There's no longer the need to buy the lies. 5) I own no party, and no party owns me. I'm just advocating "free speech" and hoping that others see through the charade that's currently offerred. the stakes are very high. Remember habeus corpus? Bill of Rights? Though some has been taken, more will be if people just nod their heads and agree that it's ok... As Timm G would say, "freedom isn't free". I agree. It was bought with real blood. If we allow others to delude us to the point that those freedoms have no meaning, we disregard the sacrifices that so many have made to provide them for us all. 6) I posted my views not from a position of "hate". Rather, I have continued to speak about what I believe exacly because I DO love this great country, and can't stand to be silent about the actions of those that are doing their best to destroy it and everything it represents. Truth is good.
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#5
10-21-2006, 06:52 PM
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We have f*cked up in Iraq. Monumentally. The current administration has taken away habeus corpus, mortgaged our financial future, handed power to corporations and religious zealouts and is dictating morality as health policy. How is standing up and saying, "This is wrong" being UnAmerican? It seems to me that saying "This is for sh*t" is the most patriotic thing people who really love the ideals for which America is supposed to stand can do. Right now this nation is not an honorable beacon of freedom to the world; it's an overbearing bully that won't even bother to clean up its own messes. And I'm American enough to be ashamed about it. Love your posts, though (and yours, Timm; even though we disagree politically a lot)-- I'm always happy with how civil discourse can stay here. Makes it fun to debate and discuss and I usually learn something new.  Thanks, guys.
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#6
10-21-2006, 07:44 PM
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All right-- after reading Rolling Stone's cover story this month I'm starting to rethink my position that the Dems aren't getting anything done because they're spineless p*ssies-- it appears the Republican-controlled Congress has been merrily breaking centuries of tradition to keep them disenfranchised. Here's the link, everyone-- I think it's a really important, scary article:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics..._congress_ever
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#7
10-22-2006, 08:35 AM
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Stop it. The Democrats are spineless pussies. Stop making excuses. The Republicans are atrocious, the Democrats just terrible. They are all losers. Nancy Pelosi is just as out of touch with America as George Bush. Let's put a liberal elitist from San Francisco in charge of the House. Brilliant. Harry Reid is just as corrupt as Bill Frist. Hillary Clinton is just a big a liar as any Republican. A third party is the only solution. As for DTS's original comment, I take issue with his last sentence, which insinuates that America is no longer great. I find it hard to believe DTS is an independent too when he is reading commondreams.com. That garbage is just as bad as Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. They are all dividers who defend their people no matter what in order to make a buck or advance their careers. There are no Thomas Paines today. Even ThomasPaine.com is garbage.
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#8
10-22-2006, 08:51 AM
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i thought threads were started to generate discussion, hopefully of the intelligent kind.
it's amazing to me that people here can talk about different things--and those who agree with each other are so smart. but then that person doesn't agree with something else, and suddenly they're so dumb. amazing, truly. and i think comments that say those in disagreement are 'naive, have a blanket over their head, don't want to know the truth, etc' are incredibly pompous. certainly isn't something that will add to the discussion.
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#9
10-22-2006, 09:23 AM
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And it is terribly clear to me that people do wish for failure so that their party can get into power. Democrats and Republicans both. It is sickening. When we went into Afghanistan, there were hardly any dissenters in this country. Europe and most of the world was behind us. But when things go bad... its bail out time. I cant remember the votes exactly in the Senate and House, but the Senate was single digits against Afgahnistan, and the House was double digits against. It was overwhelmingly in favor of going after Osama Bin Laden in a Country with a government (read the Taliban) that said they would protect him, and basically what happened on 9/11 was proper punishment. Iraq was of course very convoluted. WMD's... None. So now what are you going to do... And the country as a whole was convinced there were weapons. The Democrats saw most of the same information as the president and they believed. In fact I dont remember anyone saying there are clearly NO weapons of mass destruction. We had just been hit... People forget the situation at the time decisions were made. They just see the problems at present and then play a blame game. The major mistake made militarily in Iraq is clear NOW. We did not send nearly enough troops to stabilize the country. Why? Because we were more interested in finding and destroying weapons that were not present. And we did not realize the brutal mastery of the Iraqi people by Saddam Hussein kept ethnic and religious differences at bay. We opened a can of worms, so now we bail out...?
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#10
10-22-2006, 09:31 AM
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Political parties today are nothing more than pawns for big corporations. It amazes me how people that are in uncompetitive races feel a need to raise $20M from big business to run against nobody. Why anyone would be a registred member of one today is beyond me.
Anybody that believes corporations aren't getting something in return for their money is a moron. This is how elections should be funded. Bill Bradley, Bob Kerry, Warren Rudman and Alan Simpson have a great organization. http://www.just6dollars.org/
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#11
10-22-2006, 09:51 AM
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Thank you for bringing this thread back to "topic". I've had enough of the insults (myopic= lacking knowledge, foresight), and attempting to "box" someone's opinions by discussing the individual rather than the issues presented. That said, I disagree with two of your points. 1) Regarding Afghanistan, US troops were redirected to Iraq following Tora Bora. Currently, the Taliban is regaining strength. Karzai is called the "mayor of Kabul" because outside of his limited sphere, the country is in disarray. 2) Prior to the invasion of Iraq, there were UN inspectors attempting to locate the wmd's under the direction of Hans Blix. Powell presented the claim that there was "yellow cake" and the centerfuge tubes to the UN. This claim has proven to be unfounded. So, to answer your question, do we "bail out?" Unfortunately, our options are very limited at this point. Even though we've heard "stay the course" for quite a while, it seems that the administration is rethinking that strategy. In my view, the US military will have difficulty containing a civil war. That had never been the objective and only calls attention to the lack of planning, lack of execution, and lack of disengagement options. Some will label the idea of strategic redeployment as "cut and run". The situation is far more complex than that (but those words play well). If you can suggest a better option, please share.
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#12
10-22-2006, 10:44 AM
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Pgardn, with no disrespect, 'cause I think you're frighteningly intelligent, I think the Bush cabal didn't let out information about Iraq that contradicted what they wanted to do, so saying the Dems had the same info isn't really true-- they had the same info the public had, but it wasn't the truth; it was massaged and misrepresented. Bush was asking two days after 9/11 if it could be pinned on Saddam and it's no secret his crew wanted to topple Saddam long before 9/11. We were lied to; I don't know how else one can view it now.
Guys, seriously, read the Rolling Stone article. I promise it's an entertaining read, though it's going to infuriate you (check out the grammar of the one former Rep writing from jail). I'm not letting Dems off the hook-- note where they stood in bi-partisanship by the 1990's, but just because both sides have done it doesn't make it right. Revolution, I'd like a third party, too, but first and foremost, we've got to get rid of the single-party control of all three wings of gov't, for the sake of our own nation's health and security, and our last chance to do that before '08 is coming up fast.
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#13
10-22-2006, 11:02 AM
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Vote for Big Oil and Jesus. If you don't then the terrorists will attack us!! OoOoooOOo!!!
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#14
10-22-2006, 11:49 AM
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Thanks for sharing the article. Very informative. Page 6 was especially chilling. Do you know why GW has only issued one veto? Might be worth googling his executive modifications, and also the one and only veto he used. The shame of it all is that some would rather attack ME for my views, rather than presenting meaningful dialogue on the shameful actions of a government that negates the very beliefs that we all should hold most dear. DTS
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#15
10-22-2006, 12:29 PM
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Pillow,
I have no problem at all with Jesus..."Blessed are the peacemakers..." As far as oil...well, it seems that He was annointed with oil. Not Cheney's nor other "energy interests". Jesus also spoke well against deceit. Read about it. And for Revolution, Here's an article that speaks to the topic that I think you and I can agree on. It speaks to the "erosion of public confidence". http://www.yaledailynews.com/Article...rticleID=33793
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#16
10-22-2006, 01:03 PM
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#17
10-22-2006, 01:11 PM
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That's fine with me. Heck, when foreign policy is centered on expecting the "rapture", there's no need to do much else but wait for it. btw, the flip side of "Blessed are the peacemakers" is...cursed are the war mongers. The decisions are yours. I won't judge. That will be decided at a later time...and not by me.
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#18
10-22-2006, 01:34 PM
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Pay attention as to how this "diplomat's" words get spun.
Not much more will amaze... http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L22772920.htm
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#19
10-22-2006, 01:47 PM
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Secondly, you may be right about the info. But I believe given what I have read that GW really did believe the Iraqi's had WMD's. I dont think he tried to cook it up. At that time, the Iraqi's would not let the UN do the work they were asked to do. DTS: The inspectors were constantly harassed, misled, lied ot, time after time. People forget that they were being extremely uncooperative. What were we supposed to think? I talked to many people that keep up intensively with this stuff, and not one of them said it is very clear Iraq does not have WMD's. The question for them was do we really need to go in and get them, how far along are they... they cant have nuclear weapons (we think) but the biological potential scared them to death. Remember all the powders and inspections in Congress and elsewhere? And biological weapons do not take the large facilities that nukes take. We as a country were very scared. I remember that clearly. So the decision was made. Now, no matter what the Bush administration says, we have a Civil War. But there are some very interesting things that have happened. So many Iraqi's are killing each other at this point, that the "war lords" of all of these different factions are now actually making contact with US representatives asking them to stay. The foreign groups (outside Iraq) are not. In fact one of the guys that we had a hit out on has contacted US representatives for negotiations. Sad to say, but so many innocent people on all sides of this very complex situation are dying and its starting to hurt. My feeling is that there is the possibility they may tire of having innocent relatives butchered. I think there is still a chance some sort of arrangement can be made. The parties that were thriving with the chaos, are not anymore. Shiites are even splitting and fighting each other. It is a Civil War. And we have to give it a chance to die. There are too many indicators, however small, that all these factions are getting tired of having their own slaughtered. Its no longer just pot shot civilians, these violent groups are now feeling the real sting. I just hate seeing Americans die for this. But we caused this mess by getting rid of the tyrant that caged them, executed innocent people to keep order. Huge lessons have been learned by all. The hard way.
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#20
10-22-2006, 02:12 PM
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DTS: saying you were myopic wasn't intended as an insult,and truth be told, you know it. We banter back and forth,but that's it. It does bother me somewhat that you'll let something go by for awhile and then add it as fuel later on. example: me calling you a flamer and you joyfully accepting the title, and then acting all indignant when we were in another hot debate! Playing the victim doesnt suit you...you have too much info(skewed as it is)
Last edited by timmgirvan : 10-22-2006 at 02:22 PM.
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