Top CASTRATORS

[the_fat_man]

I'm getting more and more steamed with the ongoing CASTRATION of race horses, and I thought it might be a good idea to see if I can get some data to support my opinions. At present, off the top of my head, here's my list

1) Wesley Ward --- don't even think about bring a colt into his barn --cut 'em right after you buy them

2) Stanley Hough -- allow a colt or two every so often but their nuts are GONE typically by the end of the year

3) Pat Reynolds --- the CLAIM and CUT trainer


With all the focus on juicing and all the use of DRUGS in racing why is nothing written about the rampant castrating of horses? Is it because giving a horse TESTOSTERONE after it's been cut is fine?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I'm getting more and more steamed with the ongoing CASTRATION of race horses, and I thought it might be a good idea to see if I can get some data to support my opinions. At present, off the top of my head, here's my list

1) Wesley Ward --- don't even think about bring a colt into his barn --cut 'em right after you buy them

2) Stanley Hough -- allow a colt or two every so often but their nuts are GONE typically by the end of the year

3) Pat Reynolds --- the CLAIM and CUT trainer


With all the focus on juicing and all the use of DRUGS in racing why is nothing written about the rampant castrating of horses? Is it because giving a horse TESTOSTERONE after it's been cut is fine?

Fat Man... you know that almost all racehorses SHOULD be gelded for behavioral reasons, right?

[Bigsmc]

They should castrate more.

[Travis Stone]

The ultimate equipment change.

[GBBob]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but assuming you have spent decent money on the horse, have reasonable back breeding and considering what has happened to breeding money, why would you want to geld a horse unless medically or behaviorly necessary? In other words, if it's being done, isn't it a final resort vs an "equipment change"?

Or is Fat Man's point that some crews treat it too casually?

[hockey2315]

Pedigree's worthless if the horse isn't very good (for the most part) - so I don't think they worry about it with mediocre horses - either you don't cut him and he never wins or you cut him and maybe he wins a few races or even gets good. Not cutting a bad horse isn't going to make him stallion-worthy. I agree that they should probably geld more.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

Fat Man... you know that almost all racehorses SHOULD be gelded for behavioral reasons, right?

I've worked on the backstretch, and while STUDS can be a handful, there's nothing more depressing than being around a sad, old gelding. Like a junkie, it awaits its next refreshing shot of testosterone.

I realize there are 'traditional' ways of doing things on the racetrack. Some of these just need to change.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I've worked on the backstretch, and while STUDS can be a handful, there's nothing more depressing than being around a sad, old gelding. Like a junkie, it awaits its next refreshing shot of testosterone.

I realize there are 'traditional' ways of doing things on the racetrack. Some of these just need to change.

I've been around plenty of geldings too, and I don't find them to be sad and old at all. However, most of them probably weren't 'roided up in their days on the track.

Chuck can probably provide some better color on this topic than anyone.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by philcski

Chuck can probably provide some better color on this topic than anyone.

I've found that this phrase is generally applicable to 92.7 percent of the topics discussed on DT.

[MisterB]

Filly's RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cannon Shell]

There are a hundred reasons why gelding horses is a positive thing, there is only one thing that is negative. Other than the obvious ones about behavior, geldings are generally lighter than colts which is beneficial for soundness.

[Linny]

None other than Alfred Vanderbilt once said that if he had gelded EVERY colt he ever owned he'd have only made one mistake, Native Dancer.

Unless a horse is truly a prospect to be a top class stallion AND is sound and well built there is no reason NOT to geld. The breed would be better, not worse if fewer people had the opportunity to say "He was slow and sore but he's by Storm Cat...so why not?"

If the owner of an uncut horse decides to try and outplace him for a post race career, he'll have to be cut any how as most riding barns don't allow stallions and don't have the proper facilities for them. I've seen nice horses passed over because the potential adoptee didn't want a stallion or the initial cost of the procedure.

The horse in my avatar won 2 races at minor tracks and no one in their right mind should have considered him to have breeding potential. Yet he was kept entire til age 6, even with modest breeding himself. At 15, he's still studdish and territorial like a stallion. Certain behavioral traits are set and gelding late often doesn't change that.

I tend to theink that males have a fear of castration that prevents them from finding it acceptable in any animal. If an animal is not breeding quality it will likley be healthier neutered. To a horse "being male" is a behavior based. He doesn't contemplate his maleness, he has no emotional connection to his "parts." If you take something from him that he never knew was there, he'll never miss it, or them as the case may be. A gelding is not standing around lamenting the lack of sex life.

I read so many threads about breeders breeding poor quality horses yet many decry the process of neutering. To not geld a horse and yet not breed him is cruel. Horses are herd animals yet stallions are kept separated because when pastured together they fight, often to the death. They are generally kept isolated so as not to disturb other horses. They are often hard to handle and special arrangements may have to be made to transport them to horse shows and again once they are there. Stallions need firm discipline and handling and most riding or show stables simply cannot manage them. They are restricted in their opportunites, cost more money, require more land and serve no more purpose (often less purpose) than a gelding. All this so that they don't have to accept the ego blow of neutering. That's bad math.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I've worked on the backstretch, and while STUDS can be a handful, there's nothing more depressing than being around a sad, old gelding. Like a junkie, it awaits its next refreshing shot of testosterone.

This paragraph is riddled with understatement, ridiculous athropomorphism, and gross exaggeration. Intact horses can not only be a handful, they can also be downright dangerous (ie the veterinarian who recently was killed by a Morgan stallion). As far as their mental state, even if one could ascertain the emotions geldings harbor, who's to say its brought on by the absence of their testicles (as opposed to the lifestyle its subjected to as a racehorse in general)? Furthermore, not all geldings receive injections of anabolic steroids, much less on a regular basis.

I realize there are 'traditional' ways of doing things on the racetrack. Some of these just need to change.

Any industry that deals with the utilization of animals for the benefit of man whether it be for entertainment, food, or fiber presupposes the notion that mankind has an inherent right to 'dominion over animals', which essentially entails stripping it of its natural tendencies and modifying its existence to facilitate its exploitation. If that is at the core of your dilemma, I don't see how singling out ball-lopping will somehow give you peace of mind. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your stance on the idea of racing horses at all.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

This paragraph is riddled with understatement, ridiculous athropomorphism, and gross exaggeration. Intact horses can not only be a handful, they can also be downright dangerous (ie the veterinarian who recently was killed by a Morgan stallion). As far as their mental state, even if one could ascertain the emotions geldings harbor, who's to say its brought on by the absence of their testicles (as opposed to the lifestyle its subjected to as a racehorse in general)? Furthermore, not all geldings receive injections of anabolic steroids, much less on a regular basis.



Any industry that deals with the utilization of animals for the benefit of man whether it be for entertainment, food, or fiber presupposes the notion that mankind has an inherent right to 'dominion over animals', which essentially entails stripping it of its natural tendencies and modifying its existence to facilitate its exploitation. If that is at the core of your dilemma, I don't see how singling out ball-lopping will somehow give you peace of mind. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your stance on the idea of racing horses at all.

So, the rational solution, then, is to just castrate without regard to the individual case?

I mean there aren't any trainers out there abusing this, are there?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

So, the rational solution, then, is to just castrate without regard to the individual case?

I mean there aren't any trainers out there abusing this, are there?

Again, unless you have personally worked for the 3 trainers you named, you make assumptions. How do you know that they are not considered on an individual basis? None of the 3 you mentioned typically deal with well-bred stock and 2 handle a lot of claiming types.

A more head-on approach to this discussion would be to put you in the hot seat. What are indications are acceptable to you when considering castrating a horse?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I'm getting more and more steamed with the ongoing CASTRATION of race horses, and I thought it might be a good idea to see if I can get some data to support my opinions. At present, off the top of my head, here's my list

1) Wesley Ward --- don't even think about bring a colt into his barn --cut 'em right after you buy them

2) Stanley Hough -- allow a colt or two every so often but their nuts are GONE typically by the end of the year

3) Pat Reynolds --- the CLAIM and CUT trainer


With all the focus on juicing and all the use of DRUGS in racing why is nothing written about the rampant castrating of horses? Is it because giving a horse TESTOSTERONE after it's been cut is fine?

Colts are from Mars.

Fillies are from Venus.

Geldings are from Heaven.

I think you are right and wrong at the same time. If a horse is capable of running well and being somewhat manageable then why geld, but if either of those aren't the case why wouldn't you give it a sho? So many horses benefit from the procedure with so little to lose.