Kellyn Gorder - buh bye for 14 months

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Has the KHRC released any of this as public record (thus far all I've seen is the Stewards Ruling which validates none of this), or do we need to continually shroud client's accounts ("20 picograms detected") and 3rd party hearsay as unmitigated fact? To whom did Barbara Borden make any of that clear to? I've look high and low, and can't seem to find it.

http://www.drf.com/news/premium/gord...ethamphetamine

Borden said the unlabeled medications found in Gorder’s barn were therapeutic medications. However, all medications in a barn must be clearly labeled under Kentucky racing rules, and only veterinarians can possess hypodermic needles.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Careful now. The old "stats have fallen off" argument actually IS precious. Now, I will admit, 106 starters in a year is not a good enough sample to prove against a five year record, and perhaps one could find a 12 month period during that five year run that was comparable, but those numbers are surely not meaningless.

It would be interesting to compare the speed figures of the runners in that 106 start sample to their numbers from the prior year.

I understand the side you're taking, and there is much to be said for it, but being dismissive of stats, especially when they come from someone like Doug, is at best defensive on your part. Stats are actually a very strong argument for the other side of your arguement.

No.. I know that. Doug and Jerry Brown too rightly utilize figs/stats in this area. I'm just noting that 'chaotic number theory' in terms of streaks and, as Alan points out, ebbs and flows of stock can be applied to almost all outfits.

[Calzone Lord]

I did a blog column on the topic:

http://www.twinspires.com/blog/2015/...ination-claims

Admittedly, it's a 'on the one hand' -- 'but, on the other hand' sort of thing.

[Calzone Lord]

Regarding contamination in horse racing tests...

1-ounce of coffee equals 12 million nanograms of Caffeine.

However, only 100 nanograms of Caffeine are needed to trigger a 15-day suspension for the trainer and disqualification of purse.

Basically, one sip of coffee is enough to put a race horse 120,000 times over the testing limit for caffeine.

Considering that caffeine is commonly consumed around race horses (coffee, soda, chocolate bars, etc) why don't we see more cases of bad caffeine tests via contamination?

Patrick Biancone got a 15-day suspension for a Caffeine overage -- and a related search of his barn found Cobra Venom. I guess he probably could've argued that the bad test for Caffeine was a contamination, if not for the fact that the search nabbed him for Cobra Venom.

Biancone caffeine ban: http://www.drf.com/news/biancone-dra...y-ban-caffeine

For general sports fans, it's easy to be pessimistic. How stupid does this Nike commercial look now?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U


Here's a 10-second clip of a supposedly straight-shooting guy waiving his finger at Congress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ1UMaAosV8


Aaron Rodgers was so sure Ryan Braun didn't cheat -- he offered to bet his $8.5 million salary on it: https://twitter.com/AaronRodgers12/s...14847518572544


Of course, Braun somehow won with his 'contaminated urine sample' defense. But he got busted for PED's again, not long after that.

With human athletes, we've come to accept that "where there's smoke, there's fire" and claims of contaminated tests are usually mocked.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I did a blog column on the topic:

http://www.twinspires.com/blog/2015/...ination-claims

Admittedly, it's a 'on the one hand' -- 'but, on the other hand' sort of thing.

Excellent piece, Doug. Win% is easy enough to grab, but ROI truly tells the story.

Truth is, we likely will never know the real story. One would like to believe that his story adds up, and that a deeper dive into the sample to test for the specific derivative meth found (the derivative of meth found in Sulfamethoxazole, a common veterinary antibiotic for example, is much different from crystal meth, MDMA, etc.) would corroborate his claim.

Is 106 starts in 5 months enough of a sample size to draw a correlation between him taking a more than occasional edge with "something" prior to the investigation and post-bust?

Typically, where there is smoke there's fire.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I did a blog column on the topic:

http://www.twinspires.com/blog/2015/...ination-claims

Admittedly, it's a 'on the one hand' -- 'but, on the other hand' sort of thing.

Excellent article Doug..Being that our state lab here in La. is lax at best, were having some chemical warfare down here between a few trainers. Were having some big move ups in a short period of time.

[TheSpyder]

Good one Doug.

[Arletta]

Article by Rich Halvey

"Barker at LSU for the significance of 48 picograms of meth and he said, “48 picograms of meth isn’t enough to get a flea high.” Whatever the actual amount of meth needed to get a flea high, Dr. Barker’s statement is clearly indicative that the amount of the drug in Bourbon Warfare’s system would have zero impact on the horse’s running time. In fact, if the 48 picograms was indicative of anything, it was that the most likely source of the meth was an environmental contamination."



http://halveyonhorseracing.com/

[pointman]

The contamination defense begs a few questions.

If this is contamination, why are we not seeing a lot more of these positives? Actually, can anyone recall a positive for meth?

People go to jail every day on tests that come up positive based upon a very small amount of alcohol or drugs. Why is contamination not an issue that is prevalent in the criminal courts across the country if it is really such a likely cause for a false positive?

To be fair, as an attorney, contamination can happen when there are other facts available to support that theory. I just have not seen any facts put forward to support the theory.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by pointman

The contamination defense begs a few questions.

If this is contamination, why are we not seeing a lot more of these positives? Actually, can anyone recall a positive for meth?

People go to jail every day on tests that come up positive based upon a very small amount of alcohol or drugs. Why is contamination not an issue that is prevalent in the criminal courts across the country if it is really such a likely cause for a false positive?

To be fair, as an attorney, contamination can happen when there are other facts available to support that theory. I just have not seen any facts put forward to support the theory.

I think it's because someone associated with Winstar Farms, (who incidentally has never bred, consigned, nor owned the horse in question, but does employ Gorder with some of their horses), commented on Ray Paulick's blog immediately after Paulick broke the story:

>>>I have known Kelly Gorder for 17 years and I promise you there is not a straighter arrow on the race track. He worked for us at WinStar and he has trained horses for me.
Meth, as you stated, is a street drug and no trainer would be stupid enough to use it. It is detected with an elementary test and this particular positive was 20 pico-grams which translates to 20/10,000,000,000,000 or 20 ten trillions' of a gram. This is obviously a residue from a trace contamination weeks prior and could in no way have effected performance. There is no stronger advocate for punishing cheaters than myself but in this is a case of serious injustice without any basic common sense to a very good person. Kellyn is the consummate HORSEMAN who has worked hard to build his reputation. With one fail swoop they have given him a career death sentence.<<<

So, how he was the only person privy to this test result is strange enough, but even stranger - the blind assumption of fact surrounding this hearsay- is what continues to fuel the contamination defense.

It seems that hundreds of horses would come up positive if it were so easy for this to occur from contaminated feed/water (because clearly there are nothing but meth heads roaming the backside of every race track in America and they all have an affinity to dump their drugs in places that will contaminate a horse sample), dirt antibiotic needles/syringes, et al.

One might be interested to read Doug's post if they want to understand why methamphetamine would be found in a piss test. Particularly from trainers with horses that seem to excel off a freshening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

So when Mr. Casner asserts that "Meth, as you stated, is a street drug and no trainer would be stupid enough to use it." his statement is at best disingenuous, and more aptly, deliberately misleading. Which leads me to dismiss, rather than embrace his supposed 20 picogram test result.

[Danzig]

in dougs other thread, where he talks to his dad, his dad mentioned ritalin. that's an adhd drug.
would giving a horse adhd meds result in the lab results that has kellyn gorder facing a years' suspension?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not doubting you for a second, but I do have to ask if nobody gives meth to horses, why are they testing for meth?

It is on the list of substances that can enhance performance. KY tests for a lot more than other states do. I'm pretty sure that every drug on the list gets tested for at some point.

I didn't say that no trainer would give meth to horses, just no viable, successful trainer. There are trainers that run horses at various venues that I wouldnt rule out doing or giving anything to a horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

My stats have fell off this year. Certainly i haven't changed anything. The crop of babies i got last year haven't panned out. Some horses break their maidens and get stuck at the next level. Could be he just doesn't have the same stock this year. I know i don't.

Might just be from the extra weight of me betting on you. I promise to stop

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Might just be from the extra weight of me betting on you. I promise to stop

Just been driving me crazy watching my horses slowing down coming to the wire. And to think it was you all along...

[my miss storm cat]

Just thought I'd mention that, as mentioned on the Australian racing thread, Luke Griffith was stood down for four years for meth.

Trainer banned as he and his horses test positive

http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd#