Rails

[jnunan4759]

I can't figure out these Turf rails. GP has enough room to have 3 good turf courses, which is great. They can move the rails out 113 feet or 0 feet, what does it mean ? I know it keeps good turf, which is great. I remember when they started it at Saratoga. They'd start wide and come in through the meet. Save grass.

Does short rails favor speed ? Is a 1 1/8 mile race the same if the rails are out 113 feet ? I don't know and the people I know don't know either. We also don't know about run-ups. We have GPS and Trakus and are skepctical of the data.

[saratogadew]

The farther the rails are out, the more it favors front end speed. It makes the turn tighter which is more difficult for closers to make that wide sweeping turn.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by saratogadew

The farther the rails are out, the more it favors front end speed. It makes the turn tighter which is more difficult for closers to make that wide sweeping turn.

How can it be both tighter and wide and sweeping?

[Benny]

Originally Posted by Danzig

How can it be both tighter and wide and sweeping?

I think the banking of the turns makes it harder for closers when the rails are out. there are also changes in runups, making it difficult to handicap it.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Danzig

How can it be both tighter and wide and sweeping?

Re-read his post

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

How can it be both tighter and wide and sweeping?

Ready ... Fire... Aim

[Danzig]

Thanks for providing clarity. I was serious.

[Benny]

here's an old '06 piece on gp turf course.

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/edito...nt=yes&id=3608

newer-http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33572&page=2--


http://www.paulickreport.com/news/th...at-gulfstream/

of note -
One of the major things I've kept an eye on at Gulfstream the past several years is the temporary rail settings on the turf course. Similar to tracks with large turf course that deploy a movable rail, the Gulfstream grass course becomes very favorable to speed horses the further out from the hedge the rail is set. If you dig through the results charts from a season of turf races, you'll see rail setting from 0 feet all the way out to 108 feet, and a lot of different settings in-between.

In my personal opinion, it seems that speed really starts to have an advantage when the rail is 80 feet or further away from the hedge. When I see a 108 foot setting, I'm looking for speed horses unless the pace is going to be insane and even in those situations I'm more likely to pass than play a deep closer.

There are a couple of different considerations for the rail setting, chief among those the ability to reduce wear and tear on the grass over the course of the season. The other consideration is the distance of the scheduled turf races for the day; the rail setting impacts the position of the starting gate relative to the turns which can impact the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of gate positions.

You're not going to crush every race where the rail is set out at 80 or 100 feet with a front running horse but, if you watch those races fairly closely throughout the meet, you'll find at least several instances where lone speed will go off at ridiculously high odds given the advantages of the rail set-up.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by saratogadew

The farther the rails are out, the more it favors front end speed. It makes the turn tighter which is more difficult for closers to make that wide sweeping turn.

Actually it's the opposite of this, the turns are not as tight as the rails move out. The distance travelled around the turn increases as the rail is moved out. The horse in the two path will travel increasingly more ground than the one path as the rails move out.

[blackthroatedwind]

In the good old days, this would be an opportunity for an epic and monumentally insulting post from BBB.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In the good old days, this would be an opportunity for an epic and monumentally insulting post from BBB.

And many pies too... iOOOOOOOOO!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Actually it's the opposite of this, the turns are not as tight as the rails move out. The distance travelled around the turn increases as the rail is moved out. The horse in the two path will travel increasingly more ground than the one path as the rails move out.

that's what i thought too.
that's why i wondered how it could be tighter, along with wider? if one takes a paper clip and adjusts it outward, it's not going to be a tight turn anymore.

[jnunan4759]

Most dirt and turf courses are bermed so that water goes to the sides. On the inside, the bank is favorable. However, it's not like Daytona. It's slight at most places, and often a disadvantage very wide.

Interesting topic. Running some results for the last couple weeks, I'm not getting a big difference 60-40 on E or E/P types versus S on both rail settings.

On Dirt Sprints it's 85% E or E/P. Routes 66% E or E/P.