Glencrest Farm?

philcski · #1 10-02-2008, 08:20 AM

Has Honey Ryder and Panty Raid in the KEE NOV broodmare sale... are they liquidating their mares or just cashing in their high profile/high value pair? Anybody know?

Danzig · #2 10-02-2008, 09:00 AM

cashing in. i read about it yesterday, guy wants the money to buy more horses. says as a 'working guy' he can't afford to have that valuable a horse.

VOL JACK · #3 10-02-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

cashing in. i read about it yesterday, guy wants the money to buy more horses. says as a 'working guy' he can't afford to have that valuable a horse.

He shouldnt have to work too hard...those fillies made a ton of cash on the the track.

Danzig · #4 10-02-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

He shouldnt have to work too hard...those fillies made a ton of cash on the the track.

just telling ya what the guy said.

Cannon Shell · #5 10-02-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Has Honey Ryder and Panty Raid in the KEE NOV broodmare sale... are they liquidating their mares or just cashing in their high profile/high value pair? Anybody know?

they sell really valuble mares, too much risk keeping them (insurance, stud fees, dead or bad foals, etc)

philcski · #6 10-02-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

they sell really valuble mares, too much risk keeping them (insurance, stud fees, dead or bad foals, etc)

Smart businessmen.

Probably will fetch $2-4 million each.

GPK · #7 10-02-2008, 09:41 AM

are either in foal?

Cannon Shell · #8 10-02-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Smart businessmen.

Probably will fetch $2-4 million each.

It will be interesting what horses like this bring with a depressed yearling market. I would think that they will struggle to bring $2 million unless Sheikh Mo is involved.

VOL JACK · #9 10-02-2008, 09:45 AM

Honey Rider: cost 70k made $ 2,784,160
Thats at least $2.5mil to the good with her. (after training bill, shipping, etc.)

Panty Raid: cost 275k made $ 1,052,380
Around $750k to the good with her.

Dont get me wrong, I would do the same thing if I was in his coveted spot. Just don't know if I would refer to myself as a blue-collar.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #10 10-02-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Honey Rider: cost 70k made $ 2,784,160
Thats at least $2.5mil to the good with her. (after training bill, shipping, etc.)

Panty Raid: cost 275k made $ 1,052,380
Around $750k to the good with her.

Dont get me wrong, I would do the same thing if I was in his coveted spot. Just don't know if I would refer to myself as a blue-collar.

panty raid was laid up for almost ayear..factor that in......

Antitrust32 · #11 10-02-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Honey Rider: cost 70k made $ 2,784,160
Thats at least $2.5mil to the good with her. (after training bill, shipping, etc.)

Panty Raid: cost 275k made $ 1,052,380
Around $750k to the good with her.

Dont get me wrong, I would do the same thing if I was in his coveted spot. Just don't know if I would refer to myself as a blue-collar.

Remember trainer and jockey get 10% of the purse (or 20% combined)

So take another $767,308 (for both horses) out of what the owner got.

Still made around 2.5 mil with them.

Cannon Shell · #12 10-02-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Honey Rider: cost 70k made $ 2,784,160
Thats at least $2.5mil to the good with her. (after training bill, shipping, etc.)

Panty Raid: cost 275k made $ 1,052,380
Around $750k to the good with her.

Dont get me wrong, I would do the same thing if I was in his coveted spot. Just don't know if I would refer to myself as a blue-collar.

Compared to regular people he may not be blue collar but compared to people who buy $2 million dollar mares they are very blue clooar. They arent standing AP Indy over there.

philcski · #13 10-02-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It will be interesting what horses like this bring with a depressed yearling market. I would think that they will struggle to bring $2 million unless Sheikh Mo is involved.

Good point. They are absolutely top quality mares but not the most 'fashionable'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

are either in foal?

Panty isn't... she was still in training as of mid-April (when she got hurt on the POLY at Keeneland) HR might be, I don't know for sure.

VOL JACK · #14 10-02-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Remember trainer and jockey get 10% of the purse (or 20% combined)

So take another $767,308 (for both horses) out of what the owner got.

Still made around 2.5 mil with them.

Good point.

Linny · #15 10-02-2008, 01:33 PM

Subtract expenses with Pletcher to the tune of over $150/day each and cost of shipping these mares all over the place, plus vet and shoeing expenses and that nibbles away at big profits. I'm not saying they made nothing but expenses involved in maintaining a race horse at that level are very high.

Danzig · #16 10-02-2008, 11:53 PM

better than honour for sale, as is madcap escapade, zoftig, dearest trickski...i was surprised at some of the mares on the list that i read today.

Danzig · #17 10-02-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

they sell really valuble mares, too much risk keeping them (insurance, stud fees, dead or bad foals, etc)

case in point, the two fellows who got second mortgages to buy a horse, and were lucky enough to find and purchase she's a devil due. they had true beginners luck with her as a racer. they were offered a lot of money for her as a broodmare, but opted to keep and breed her. she died while foaling, and they lost the foal as well.

Cannon Shell · #18 10-03-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

case in point, the two fellows who got second mortgages to buy a horse, and were lucky enough to find and purchase she's a devil due. they had true beginners luck with her as a racer. they were offered a lot of money for her as a broodmare, but opted to keep and breed her. she died while foaling, and they lost the foal as well.

Better to be lucky than smart?

I think some of those mares like Better than Honour and Madcap Escapade are to dissolve a partnership, which at that level needs to be done by public auction.

VOL JACK · #19 10-03-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

case in point, the two fellows who got second mortgages to buy a horse, and were lucky enough to find and purchase she's a devil due. they had true beginners luck with her as a racer. they were offered a lot of money for her as a broodmare, but opted to keep and breed her. she died while foaling, and they lost the foal as well.

When these foolish owners get offered tons of money for a horse and turn it down, they lose 99 out of 100 times. I cant tell you how many times I know of owners paying 25k for a horse at auction. Then when the horse runs big a time or two they get offers of 200-250k and turn it down. I know that sounds made up and unrealistic but it happens all the time.

Linny · #20 10-03-2008, 10:21 AM

Breeding can be very risky. Read the BH headlines during the spring and see how many mares die during foaling or from complications. That's just the prominent mares, and assume that those mares are getting (literally) the best care in the world.
Mares get hit by lightning. Strawberry Reason was kicked in the head by a pasture-mate. Mares colic after a late term foal twists strangely in utero and both mare and foal die.
Breeding also requires a willingness to wait a long time for possible profits. Retire a mare today and breed her in spring of 2009. Before the foal is on the ground you have board and care bills for possibly 18 months. It's spring of 2010 and the blessed event occurs. Add in mare and foal board plus expenses for the baby and of course the stud fee, plus costs involved in getting mare re-bred after the 2010 baby is born.
The soonest you can get anything back (unless you choose to sell the mare in 2009) is when you can sell the foal as a weanling in 2010. Weaners don't bring a ton of money but that mare and baby are racking up tons of bills. You opt to keep foal and sell as a yearling. Now you send him off to a consignor's farm to be spiffed up, taught to walk nicely for buyers, fed a rich diet and hopefully make you some money. Those services are not cheap and the sales company gets their cut as well.
Maybe you do OK. You sell the foal for 3x the stud fee which sounds like a nice profit but the sales agent, sales company, vet, farrier, etc all get paid. Meanwhile the mare has had another foal, but this one was born crooked and you still have to pay the fee, plus board etc and the baby might need some surgical procedure to ever make him viable. There goes the profit from the one just sold...

Obviously, when you have a herd of mares the economies of scale can help, but sometimes that "big one" needs to be pretty big to carry the whole operation.