Integrity in horse racing -- from a betting standpoint

[Calzone Lord]

I saw this article ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/teresage...r-own-product/

In a game that relies on an integrity that is often doubted and that invites conspiracy theories, it wouldn’t take much for the betting public to suspect that an executive with a wagering interest might engage in some shenanigans to make sure that he got to cash a ticket. Whether that is likely to happen is of little import; removing even the possibility of it for the sake of appearances, some would argue, is a no-brainer.

Of all of the things to doubt in horse racing ... #1 is the idea that executives in this sport could ever possibly bet for profit.

We would all be MUCH better off if these people bet.

And the idea of them "engaging in some shenanigans" to gain a true edge at the betting windows ... is highly amusing.

From the betting end ... the integrity in the sport of thoroughbred racing is incredibly high.

I bet over a thousand races a year -- many of them at mid and lower profile tracks ... and not one time in years did I watch a race and wonder if maybe some kind of fix was in. On maybe five or ten occasions a year...I might wonder if a horse I bet on was stiffed... and more times than not, it ends up being a case of a rider "taking care" of a horse with an in issue. A long layoff following the possible stiff job proves that out.

Life At Ten in the BC Distaff, Questing in the BC Distaff, type situations...do on occasion pop up in cheap races.

The only integrity issues I see in horse racing (from the betting end) is in regard to the trainers and the tote. These are small and insignificant issues.

We all know there are a few trainers who seem to have a magic wand. They improve all the horses they get almost overnight. And all the horses they lose, often see their form deteriorate fast. However, some human athletes have shady trainers as well. It's not a big deal to bettors.

The biggest integrity issue is probably with the tote system. I've seen a lot of my horses get pounded suspiciously so late in the betting, that the odds change occurs during the race. It's annoying when your 5/1 shot suddenly is 3/1 with 3 furlongs to go. This happens more often at smaller tracks, and probably isn't even an integrity issue even though it feels like it after it keeps happening.

Basically ... in terms of horse racing everywhere, the integrity factor is probably the one and only thing the executives and powers that be in horse racing have done a great job with.

However, these same executives and same powers that be have shown such a tremendously poor understanding of their customer, that we should be BEGGING these people everywhere to bet on the races! We need all of the handle we can get from those type of people.

[Cannon Shell]

Racing spends an inordinate amount of time worrying about what people who are very unlikely to become customers think.

Outside of racing officials I dont know what executive could have any effect on the outcome of a race?

Let's call the NYRA thing what it is, a PR move. Of course it unwittingly casts NYRA and racing in a negative light simply because the crazies will assume that if the new regime bans executives from wagering (especially as one of its first orders of business) there must have been some sort of issue that wasn't made public. The entire premise that betting is bad or that NYRA execs could influence the outcome of races is unsettling if you are hoping for effective leadership of a racetrack from the new board.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Outside of racing officials I dont know what executive could have any effect on the outcome of a race?

Yes. Obviously the stewards should not be permitted to bet. The clerk of scales should not be permitted to bet. Jockeys and trainers should not be allowed to bet against their own horses in a race where they ride or train.

Basically, if you don't have the ability to alter the outcome of a race, you should be permitted to bet in good faith.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I saw this article ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/teresage...r-own-product/





Of all of the things to doubt in horse racing ... #1 is the idea that executives in this sport could ever possibly bet for profit.

We would all be MUCH better off if these people bet.

And the idea of them "engaging in some shenanigans" to gain a true edge at the betting windows ... is highly amusing.

From the betting end ... the integrity in the sport of thoroughbred racing is incredibly high.

I bet over a thousand races a year -- many of them at mid and lower profile tracks ... and not one time in years did I watch a race and wonder if maybe some kind of fix was in. On maybe five or ten occasions a year...I might wonder if a horse I bet on was stiffed... and more times than not, it ends up being a case of a rider "taking care" of a horse with an in issue. A long layoff following the possible stiff job proves that out.

Life At Ten in the BC Distaff, Questing in the BC Distaff, type situations...do on occasion pop up in cheap races.

The only integrity issues I see in horse racing (from the betting end) is in regard to the trainers and the tote. These are small and insignificant issues.

We all know there are a few trainers who seem to have a magic wand. They improve all the horses they get almost overnight. And all the horses they lose, often see their form deteriorate fast. However, some human athletes have shady trainers as well. It's not a big deal to bettors.

The biggest integrity issue is probably with the tote system. I've seen a lot of my horses get pounded suspiciously so late in the betting, that the odds change occurs during the race. It's annoying when your 5/1 shot suddenly is 3/1 with 3 furlongs to go. This happens more often at smaller tracks, and probably isn't even an integrity issue even though it feels like it after it keeps happening.

Basically ... in terms of horse racing everywhere, the integrity factor is probably the one and only thing the executives and powers that be in horse racing have done a great job with.

However, these same executives and same powers that be have shown such a tremendously poor understanding of their customer, that we should be BEGGING these people everywhere to bet on the races! We need all of the handle we can get from those type of people.

I have absolutely seen with mine own eyes jockeys stiff horses. Eddie D is the most painful one to me.

I also know of a hall of fame trainer in Socal that instructed the jock on a 2yo FTS to not win.

Granted, those were twenty years ago, but that is when I knew more people at the track, and more owners, in person.

[Calzone Lord]

There are trainers who would almost rather not win first-time out.

Anytime you play a race with first-time starters or layoffs you are taking a chance that insiders might have an edge over you in certain areas. It can be frustrating on rare occasions, but the insiders might know something you don't, but wish you did.

I get furious by rides jockeys give all the time ... a lot of jockeys and a lot of trainers are brutally clueless when it comes to understanding tactics and pace dynamics. Errors happen everyday.

A jockey flat out stiffing a horse, IMO, almost never happens.

[DaTruth]

As I reflected on races that I thought had suspicious outcomes, it occurred to me that most of the instances happened on closing days at meets. One example that sticks out occurred at FG over 10 years ago. It was a turf race and as the field ran the final quarter, you would have thought the race had just began and nobody wanted the lead. There was zero urging and outright restraint by several jockeys as their mounts tugged them to the lead in the final furling. Lo and behold they were all caught at the wire. Even though I cashed on the race, I still recognized the race was a farce.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

As I reflected on races that I thought had suspicious outcomes, it occurred to me that most of the instances happened on closing days at meets. One example that sticks out occurred at FG over 10 years ago. It was a turf race and as the field ran the final quarter, you would have thought the race had just began and nobody wanted the lead. There was zero urging and outright restraint by several jockeys as their mounts tugged them to the lead in the final furling. Lo and behold they were all caught at the wire. Even though I cashed on the race, I still recognized the race was a farce.

I don't care what anyone says, this has to be considered a late nominee in the "Redboard of the Year" category. That is creativity at its finest.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't care what anyone says, this has to be considered a late nominee in the "Redboard of the Year" category. That is creativity at its finest.

Scoff as you wish, but that was my impression as I watched the race unfold. We are talking about Louisiana, you know.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Scoff as you wish, but that was my impression as I watched the race unfold. We are talking about Louisiana, you know.

Scoff? It was a nomination. The fact you cashed had nothing at all to do with anything, but you slid it in the side door. Well done!

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Scoff? It was a nomination. The fact you cashed had nothing at all to do with anything, but you slid it in the side door. Well done!

I mentioned that to deflect any accusations of sour grapes. It wasn't like I said I killed the race.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't care what anyone says, this has to be considered a late nominee in the "Redboard of the Year" category. That is creativity at its finest.

I read on another board today where a poster claimed only two losing years in 45 years of playing!! Now that takes courage lol

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by tabs

Now that takes courage lol

Or really bad record keeping.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

I mentioned that to deflect any accusations of sour grapes. It wasn't like I said I killed the race.

I'm just joking around man, I know you didn't mean anything by it. Happy Holidays!

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Or really bad record keeping.

Or a 43 year layoff.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm just joking around man, I know you didn't mean anything by it. Happy Holidays!

No problem chief. Happy New Year.

[goodcopy]

"Lord" you dumb ignorant bitch,I have personal Private knowledge of so called "shenanigans" occurring jut this year any many others in the past!
They are very rare and part of my handicapping process is to try and stay away of races with the potential for "stiffs" or trainer/jockey intent other than to win a race.
but to think that there is not drugs or electric blankets or buzzers or any other type of cheating out side the rules of racing is both naive and terribly dumb to mention write or speculate on

[Sightseek]

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by goodcopy

"Lord" you dumb ignorant bitch,I have personal Private knowledge of so called "shenanigans" occurring jut this year any many others in the past!
They are very rare and part of my handicapping process is to try and stay away of races with the potential for "stiffs" or trainer/jockey intent other than to win a race.
but to think that there is not drugs or electric blankets or buzzers or any other type of cheating out side the rules of racing is both naive and terribly dumb to mention write or speculate on

You tell 'em.

Nothing like personal, private knowledge. Would you be so kind as to alert us next time one of those electric blankets are being used in a race.

Thanks in advance.