Another breakdown at Turfway

http://www.keeneland.com/news/mediak.../factsheet.pdf

Please note the bullets that say:
1)It is dust free!!! LOL!!!! Why do those guys at turfway wear surgical masks if its dust free?
2)It maintains uniformity in various weather conditions. LOL!! Tell that to the guys up in canada where it supposedly fell apart.
3)It reduces kickback. Ever see a race from Turfway? Huh?
4) minimum maintenance required. How come Turfway has had to tweak and redo it so much if this is so?

Now please, can you see my problem with the way it has been marketed and the way its worked out in reality?

[The Bid]

Oracle

All you need to do when you buy something is ask the guy whos selling it, they are always honest.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Where is Ron Ellis stabled?

I don't know,but most of these guys have people at both Anita,and Hwd.
The thing being missed by people (who say that a new dirt surface would have been the way to go) is that turf horses have been running on this stuff the whole meet.Most "dirt" horses (who don't like turf,)are handling this cushion track.You can see why the field sizes would go way up.Not all horses are going to win on it,but most can win on it(in the right field.)Baffert is an Anita guy,but he has run some horses here.Why? Because he knows they need a race,and it isn't dangerous(they just "might not take to it" like his horses do at Anita.)

Originally Posted by oracle80

http://www.keeneland.com/news/mediak.../factsheet.pdf

Please note the bullets that say:
1)It is dust free!!! LOL!!!! Why do those guys at turfway wear surgical masks if its dust free?
2)It maintains uniformity in various weather conditions. LOL!! Tell that to the guys up in canada wear it supposedly fell apart.
3)It reduces kickback. Ever see a race from Turfway? Huh?
4) minimum maintenance required. How come Turfway has had to tweak and redo it so much if this is so?

Now please, can you see my problem with the way it has been marketed and the way its worked out in reality?

I am only going to focus on #4. The maintenance costs have been reduced by 58% at Turfway.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I am only going to focus on #4. The maintenance costs have been reduced by 58% at Turfway.

Of course you are only going to focus on number 4. You sure as hell can't focus on the other three!!!!!!!!!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Where is Ron Ellis stabled?

Most of Ron's horses are at Hollywood. They would all be at Hollywood if he could get more stalls. There is a shortage of stalls at Hollywood right now, so practically every trainer with more than 30 horses has horses at both tracks.

Ron has 40 horses. He has 32 at Hollywood and 8 at Santa Anita.

When the Hollywood season ends on Dec 18th, it should be much easier to get stalls there.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

The only major thing I see wrong with the Cushion Track is that it is very difficult to cap a group of races(at this meet.)This will not be the case for long.We have all seen that some horses can beat horses on it that they just can't beat on dirt. It makes most capping sheets or figures much less important than they normally are,but that will change.For bettors,this is a tread easy meet.It is the future in SOCAL that is gunna be great.We just have to get through this transition time.You must all see how turf horses don't scratch when they have to move turf races to this cushion track.That is very cool.Races aren't devastated by scratches.You get an actual contest(instead of just giving the check over to the one horse in there that likes dirt.)

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The only major thing I see wrong with the Cushion Track is that it is very difficult to cap a group of races(at this meet.)This will not be the case for long.We have all seen that some horses can beat horses on it that they just can't beat on dirt. It makes most capping sheets or figures much less important than they normally are,but that will change.For bettors,this is a tread easy meet.It is the future in SOCAL that is gunna be great.We just have to get through this transition time.You must all see how turf horses don't scratch when they have to move turf races to this cushion track.That is very cool.Races aren't devastated by scratches.You get an actual contest(instead of just giving the check over to the one horse in there that likes dirt.)

You mean like a horse like St Stephen who cant stand up on dirt winning a graded stakes race on Polytrack like he just did?
yeah, I mean thats just another example of how this stuff has no relationship to dirt whatsoever.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You mean like a horse like St Stephen who cant stand up on dirt winning a graded stakes race on Polytrack like he just did?
yeah, I mean thats just another example of how this stuff has no relationship to dirt whatsoever.

I would say it allows racing between turf horses,and conventional "dirt" horses.I have seen about the same amount of turf horses freak on it as I have dirt horses.Steve Knapp has won 3 races out of about 55 starts here.All 3 wins were won by the same coventional dirt horse.You certainly don't have to be a turf horse to enjoy the cushion track.I know it is best (for sure) for SOCAL racing.We needed a shot in the arm,and if it means we get to race turf and dirt horses together,then so be it.We are getting turf horses from around the country now,and it is gunna get easier to cap as time goes on.This is a success out here.I don't regret it one bit,and I think it is better than polytrack.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I would say it allows racing between turf horses,and conventional "dirt" horses.I have seen about the same amount of turf horses freak on it as I have dirt horses.Steve Knapp has won 3 races out of about 55 starts here.All 3 wins were won by the same coventional dirt horse.You certainly don't have to be a turf horse to enjoy the cushion track.I know it is best (for sure) for SOCAL racing.We needed a shot in the arm,and if it means we get to race turf and dirt horses together,then so be it.We are getting turf horses from around the country now,and it is gunna get easier to cap as time goes on.This is a success out here.I don't regret it one bit,and I think it is better than polytrack.

Scuds I hear what you are saying, but its hard for people to wanna bet a place where a horse like St Stephen can be a graded winner on what passes for a dirt replacement.

[uscrules]

how did spellbinder look today? hes a horse i use to follow. knows how to win.

Originally Posted by uscrules

how did spellbinder look today? hes a horse i use to follow. knows how to win.

Scratched late.

[uscrules]

thanks. wonder what went wrong. appeared to be a race he could have done well in.

[King Glorious]

Turf racing in America is on it's death bed with the emergence of JunkTrack. Whereas the turf used to be inhabited by those the couldn't handle dirt, why would anyone want to race their grass horses on grass anymore when they are going to be able to win all the major "dirt" races? It's going to be so hilarious watching Saint Stephen and The Tin Man coming down to the wire in the Hollywood Gold Cup.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Scuds I hear what you are saying, but its hard for people to wanna bet a place where a horse like St Stephen can be a graded winner on what passes for a dirt replacement.

The Spring/Summer meet at HWD is gunna be a very popular meet.I think any place that puts this cushion track in is going to be very popular.The fact is that it is a very fair track.You see a horse like Saint Stephen take advantage of 2 guys acting stupid up front,but right away,you see(in the next race) Antongeorgi steal a race.I have been watching horses for almost 25 years,and this is the most fair surface I have seen.Sure,some horses are going to love/hate it,but once that gets established(and it will) this track will be much more capper friendly.I don't see the huge inside/outside...speed/anti-speed biases on a daily basis that I have seen for the last 25 years. It is difficult only because you have horses trying it or the 1st time(that is difficult to cap.)The number of 1st timers on this surface will slowly go down though.The most bias I have seen was the day Gomez won on GN. GRP. MEETING.That was a day when speed was in trouble.The day after that,they went a bit too far the other way.Since then,I think it has been very fair.Even when the times were very fast,horses could close if frontrunners ran together.The biggest problem in capping this surface is not that some horses hate it(not that many do.)The biggest problem is that some horses love it too much,and they blow the race for many cappers.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't think turf racing is on it's death bed at all. Quite the opposite. Turf races for the most part have pretty good sized fields, take a look at the entries from most tracks. The synthetic surfaces might be an alternative to the turf, but the turf isn't going anywhere. And I don't think the connections of Lava Man are scared of Saint Stephen. As Scuds said, you had two speeds killing each other up front, and the closers took advantage, that happens on any surface.

We'll see. I expect many good grass horses to try "dirt" in the future and lessen the quality and depth of the grass races.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

We'll see. I expect many good grass horses to try "dirt" in the future and lessen the quality and depth of the grass races.

I think you will see us getting a lot of Euro horses,and they will try both surfaces.They have options over here now.There are a lot of people with good(not great)turf horses in Europe,and you can be sure they will be wondering if they can take to the cushion track like Foxysox did.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

By "dirt", do you mean synthetic surface, or actual dirt? I agree we'll see more turf horse trying synthetic, but not enough to the point where turf is obsolete. Hey sometimes the turf horse end up liking turf, poly and dirt like Asi Siempre.

I mean the synthetic stuff.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You mean like a horse like St Stephen who cant stand up on dirt winning a graded stakes race on Polytrack like he just did?
yeah, I mean thats just another example of how this stuff has no relationship to dirt whatsoever.

How can you say for certain that St Stephen can't run on dirt?? he's run TWICE on it (hitting the board once), and not since he was 2, and he's a full brother to a dirt champion. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say he can't run on dirt.

[blackthroatedwind]

Saint Stephen will remain....all he lost he shall regain.