Thoughts On NBA at midseason

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Youre getting all worked up and you are obviously emotional where I am indifferent to the subject. You make a compelling case and I agree with what you say. My original premise that they are not as good as last year was off the mark. It isnt the first or the last time that will be the case.

Lebron is the best player in the league at this point and anyone that disagrees is just in denial. They still aren't good enough to beat the lakers and if Boston adds a piece and gets healthy they won't get out of the east.

Have you watched Boston? What piece are they adding that makes a difference? Miami trading Wade for Eddie House? Stick a fork in Boston, they are cooked and even they know it.

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I dont make that trade. Hienrich for Allen? Will that make them better?

It'll make them whiter

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=GBBob]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The Celtics have always like Kirk's style of play...The contract situation is perfect for the Bulls, but do the Celtics want the remainder of a $17 million/year contract with at least 2 years left on it

What?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting rumors.

The Boston/ Washington trade wont make Boston better, just different. That this has any legs shows you how dead in the water Boston knows it is.

Monta Ellis wont work with Rondo. I'd do Kevin martin and a toss in for Allen but i dont know if that makes them much better though it does make them a little younger. Bostons problem is KG isn't really KG anymore, Pierce cant stay healthy and allen has lost a half a step. Age, you cant defend against it.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

NY cant take both salaries. pay those two stiffs and fill out the roster. The cap is going down and that would leave them with like 5 million for 9 guys to fill out the roster. Good luck with that.

Your take on Chicagos players is silly.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

How would Chicago make it work if New York can't? Even if you get rid of Hienrich's contract, you are still roughly at the same place New York is. And that is "if".

I think you are misinterpreting my point on chemistry issues in chicago with a potential bosh/wade addition. Rose is not exactly a ball distributing pg and he doesnt shoot 3's. He averages about 18 shots a game. Deng shoots about 15 shots a game. Wade is going to want his 20 and has never been accused of being a good 3 pt shooter and Bosh is going to want his 15...and then you have whoever is else left. Lets say Noah.

So you have a lineup without anyone to distribute the ball. You have no one that consistently knock down a three point shot. And you have 4 guys that are all use to getting 15-20 shots a game. Those are four great pieces indeed but they don't really fit. Hence, chemistry issues.

Miami makes more and more sense the more i think about it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GPK

The C's brass gotta let Ainge pull the trigger on that deal.

I dont understand the love for this deal. Butler is a not a great shooter and is redundant with Pierce and Jamison plays the same position as KG and Rasheed. Maybe in fantasy basketball this makes sense but when Marquis Daniels is your second best guard you arent getting out of the second round.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

How would Chicago make it work if New York can't? Even if you get rid of Hienrich's contract, you are still roughly at the same place New York is. And that is "if".

I think you are misinterpreting my point on chemistry issues in chicago with a potential bosh/wade addition. Rose is not exactly a ball distributing pg and he doesnt shoot 3's. He averages about 18 shots a game. Deng shoots about 15 shots a game. Wade is going to want his 20 and has never been accused of being a good 3 pt shooter and Bosh is going to want his 15...and then you have whoever is else left. Lets say Noah.

So you have a lineup without anyone to distribute the ball. You have no one that consistently knock down a three point shot. And you have 4 guys that are all use to getting 15-20 shots a game. Those are four great pieces indeed but they don't really fit. Hence, chemistry issues.

Miami makes more and more sense the more i think about it.

Wade wouldnt want to play with Derrick Rose? Yeah sure he wouldn't...


So Wade, Rose, Deng, Bosh and Noah wouldnt be a tough line up with Gibson and Slamons and the mid level exception player off the bench? You like Wade, Chalmers, Beasley, Bosh and player to be named later better?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Wade wouldnt want to play with Derrick Rose? Yeah sure he wouldn't...


So Wade, Rose, Deng, Bosh and Noah wouldnt be a tough line up with Gibson and Slamons and the mid level exception player off the bench? You like Wade, Chalmers, Beasley, Bosh and player to be named later better?

Instead of being argumentative, try to understand the points presented and address them. Its not like there wouldnt be plenty of talent. My point is that they wouldnt go well together (chemistry!). You have four guys, none of them shoots 3's or distributes the ball and all of them are use to getting 15-20 shots. How does that work unless you have guys that will significantly change their respective game.

In miami, you don't have much money promised out and you can find players that would compliment wade and bosh. Beasley has been playing well lately but you get a nice return in a trade for him if you dont feel like he works. Either way, you have a blank slate with two studs and a bunch of money to fill in the blanks.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Instead of being argumentative, try to understand the points presented and address them. Its not like there wouldnt be plenty of talent. My point is that they wouldnt go well together (chemistry!). You have four guys, none of them shoots 3's or distributes the ball and all of them are use to getting 15-20 shots. How does that work unless you have guys that will significantly change their respective game.

In miami, you don't have much money promised out and you can find players that would compliment wade and bosh. Beasley has been playing well lately but you get a nice return in a trade for him if you dont feel like he works. Either way, you have a blank slate with two studs and a bunch of money to fill in the blanks.

Argumentative? it is hard to understand your logic. Like Derrick Rose wouldn't alter his game if he had Dwayne Wade in the backcourt with him? That Wade wouldnt want to play with a top 5 (and getting better) PG? That there would be a chemistry problem with the players ? Salmons can certainly shoot the three as evidenced by his 41% last year and Deng doesnt take a lot of them but is also over 40% this year, they would have two of the NBA's best rebounders (Noah and Bosh) as well.

A blank slate doesnt means that you can get the right pieces around them. Currently Miami has a slightly below average PG and an enigma signed through next year. The idea that they can fill out the roster with players that would be of the quality of Chicagos with the limited money they would have is a longshot. And that is if you believe you can be a championship calibur team with Mario Chalmers at the point and Micheal Beasley playing 35 minutes at whatever position that it is that he plays.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Argumentative? it is hard to understand your logic. Like Derrick Rose wouldn't alter his game if he had Dwayne Wade in the backcourt with him? That Wade wouldnt want to play with a top 5 (and getting better) PG? That there would be a chemistry problem with the players ? Salmons can certainly shoot the three as evidenced by his 41% last year and Deng doesnt take a lot of them but is also over 40% this year, they would have two of the NBA's best rebounders (Noah and Bosh) as well.

A blank slate doesnt means that you can get the right pieces around them. Currently Miami has a slightly below average PG and an enigma signed through next year. The idea that they can fill out the roster with players that would be of the quality of Chicagos with the limited money they would have is a longshot. And that is if you believe you can be a championship calibur team with Mario Chalmers at the point and Micheal Beasley playing 35 minutes at whatever position that it is that he plays.

First of all, I still have to understand how should Chicago could get it done and New York can't capwise unless some serious trades are made. I posted the links earlier.

If you still don't understand how there would be chemistry issues, anyway, i dont know what to tell you. You have 5 guys, none of them shoot threes or passes and 4 of them are use to 15-20 shots a game. You bring up salmons but you play 5 guys at a time in the NBA. So how can that work? It doesnt...except in rotisserie leagues but it doesnt even work there because you would get killed in a couple of categories.

Now, if your claim is that maybe they get a couple of the players you named to create cap space (perhaps deng or even rose) and find lesser paid parts that actually fit on the court, i can buy that. But a starting lineup of deng, rose, wade, bosh and noah doesnt work on many levels. Yes, four very talented players but talented players don't always play well together.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

First of all, I still have to understand how should Chicago could get it done and New York can't capwise unless some serious trades are made. I posted the links earlier.

If you still don't understand how there would be chemistry issues, anyway, i dont know what to tell you. You have 5 guys, none of them shoot threes or passes and 4 of them are use to 15-20 shots a game. You bring up salmons but you play 5 guys at a time in the NBA. So how can that work? It doesnt...except in rotisserie leagues but it doesnt even work there because you would get killed in a couple of categories.

Now, if your claim is that maybe they get a couple of the players you named to create cap space (perhaps deng or even rose) and find lesser paid parts that actually fit on the court, i can buy that. But a starting lineup of deng, rose, wade, bosh and noah doesnt work on many levels. Yes, four very talented players but talented players don't always play well together.

PG - Rose (Hard to believe you can find a major fault here)
SG - Wade (could pace himself with other weapons unlike now where he is basically asked to carry the entire load)
SF - Deng (He probably isnt worth his contract but is a good mid range scorer who would benefit greatly from playing with Wade and Bosh. Pretty good defender and rebounder with length)
PF - Noah (Relentless rebounder and good low post defender who stepped up his game this year before getting hurt. Does not need offensive touches)
C- Bosh (24-10 guy, very good defender in prime of his career)
6th mn - Salomns - (Offensive minded player who could spell Wade and Deng. Good 3 pt shooter)
7th man - Taj Gibson - (Good rookie season so far, brings energy and rebounding, has tons of upside)

It looks like the puzzle pieces fit pretty well. Each player is suited to their role. I have no idea how you dont see these players fitting together. It is a longshot to happen as they would still have to get rid of Thomas and Hinrich without taking on money and may even need Wade to take a little less than max money to fill up the cupboard. I will give you that all the dominos falling to make this happen is far from a certainty. But that team would be a serious contender.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

First of all, I still have to understand how should Chicago could get it done and New York can't capwise unless some serious trades are made. I posted the links earlier.

Accoring to your links if the bulls can dump KH and TT for expiring contracts they will be on the hook for $22 million next year. While a lot has to happen it is not that far out of the realm of possibility that these trades can happen. It leaves you with approx $47 mill in space. But you have an allstar PG, a pretty good SF, a top 5 rebounder, a solid 6th man and Taj Gibson who has played really well.

The Knicks have almost no chance of getting below $27 million and have a Euro perimeter player, a fair SF, a really raw rookie PF, a useless PF and a tub of **** coming back next year.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

PG - Rose (Hard to believe you can find a major fault here)
SG - Wade (could pace himself with other weapons unlike now where he is basically asked to carry the entire load)
SF - Deng (He probably isnt worth his contract but is a good mid range scorer who would benefit greatly from playing with Wade and Bosh. Pretty good defender and rebounder with length)
PF - Noah (Relentless rebounder and good low post defender who stepped up his game this year before getting hurt. Does not need offensive touches)
C- Bosh (24-10 guy, very good defender in prime of his career)
6th mn - Salomns - (Offensive minded player who could spell Wade and Deng. Good 3 pt shooter)
7th man - Taj Gibson - (Good rookie season so far, brings energy and rebounding, has tons of upside)

It looks like the puzzle pieces fit pretty well. Each player is suited to their role. I have no idea how you dont see these players fitting together. It is a longshot to happen as they would still have to get rid of Thomas and Hinrich without taking on money and may even need Wade to take a little less than max money to fill up the cupboard. I will give you that all the dominos falling to make this happen is far from a certainty. But that team would be a serious contender.

NONE OF THE STARTERS SHOOTS 3's or PASSES! That doesnt work. Rose is a shoot first PG that now isnt going to have the pumpkin most of the time and has to find shots for other players. Defenses can collapse the lane because there is no one to keep them honest with range. Teams just arent built like this. There is no question that all of those guys are talented but that team isnt contending for a title. Lebron is going to get someone. That team that you have assembled isnt going to beat lebron+ (joe johnson?) and whoever else they have. It isnt beating the lakers.

Moving the 3 pt line changed the game and teams that can't consistently knock them down don't win. Period. Teams that don't pass, don't win. Period. I think you are just being stubborn because obviously you know this stuff.

Its a moot point regardless.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Accoring to your links if the bulls can dump KH and TT for expiring contracts they will be on the hook for $22 million next year. While a lot has to happen it is not that far out of the realm of possibility that these trades can happen. It leaves you with approx $47 mill in space. But you have an allstar PG, a pretty good SF, a top 5 rebounder, a solid 6th man and Taj Gibson who has played really well.

The Knicks have almost no chance of getting below $27 million and have a Euro perimeter player, a fair SF, a really raw rookie PF, a useless PF and a tub of **** coming back next year.

The Knicks could get below that number easily. Package one of their expiring contracts (tub of **** or jefferies) with a draft pick (certainly going to be high) and voila! On top of that, you will have room to spare.

Lots of benefits to playing in NY and plus the following year they will have even more room.

The pieces are complimentary and there is room to add more the following year. It could work easier for NY than chicago.

[horseofcourse]

why are you so emotional about this stuff dala??

[packerbacker7964]

The East better hope the Cavs don't Jameson or Stou. from the Suns because it will be all for 2nd place for the rest of them.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

why are you so emotional about this stuff dala??

Im not. I just have an idea on how teams are made. Some don't. Its not about throwing a bunch of guys together and seeing if they can play together. Guys have to get their shots. There has to be players to do different roles. You can't say "derrick Rose is the point guard and i dont see a problem with that". That is an ignorant statement. You are asking a guy that has never distributed the ball in his life, never played second fiddle in his life and never had to spot up in his life to suddenly have to do these things and expect it to work simply because he is talented. Basketball doesnt work that way.

Would they be good? Sure they would be good. Wade and Bosh would be good with anyone around them. At the same time, in order to seriously contend, you would need a guy to get them their shots and hit an open three.

Anyway, it is silly to argue. I think Wade and Bosh end up together and I would agree that Chicago has a shot (isnt it wade's hometown?) but no more so than New York or Miami and I think Miami would be the favorite. What is your opinion?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

The East better hope the Cavs don't Jameson or Stou. from the Suns because it will be all for 2nd place for the rest of them.

If the other teams don't do something significant, it will be all for second place with or without either of those guys.

[horseofcourse]

I think Chicago has more overall talent than Miami. I'm not really paying attention to Wade or Bosh though!! AT least you get to see the glories of Drew Gooden up close and personal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

NONE OF THE STARTERS SHOOTS 3's or PASSES! That doesnt work. Rose is a shoot first PG that now isnt going to have the pumpkin most of the time and has to find shots for other players. Defenses can collapse the lane because there is no one to keep them honest with range. Teams just arent built like this. There is no question that all of those guys are talented but that team isnt contending for a title. Lebron is going to get someone. That team that you have assembled isnt going to beat lebron+ (joe johnson?) and whoever else they have. It isnt beating the lakers.

Moving the 3 pt line changed the game and teams that can't consistently knock them down don't win. Period. Teams that don't pass, don't win. Period. I think you are just being stubborn because obviously you know this stuff.

Its a moot point regardless.

Fine, Who is the Lakers big 3 point shooter? Their starters avg hitting just over 3 a game. Kobe? hits just over 1 a game. Artest? same with him. That is the key to thier offense? Yeah ok.

None of the starters pass? That is ridiclous. Just stupid. Like it is a collecion of 5 gunners. Noah rarely shoots, Bosh needs to be fed, he doesnt create his own shot, Deng and Rose would certainly defer to Wade. Your premise that this isnt how teams are built is close to insane. The NBA is a matchup league and that lineup would provide a lot of match up problems. You think adding a three point shooter wouldnt be hard? You dont think open shots would be created with that team on the floor? You must have be brainwashed by watching too many Wizards games...

I havent seen a team collapse a defense in the NBA ever. Do you even watch the games?