Obama - good for Americans

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, thought out response time after an exciting day with the niffle. Before I start your chargers better come through.

So called "independants" that want to be "convinced" really arent going to be "convinced" at this stage of the game. You arent going to be convinced Geeker. You finally realize that Obama being President is inevitable thats all.

So what do i think he will do that is good for America? Okay:

1. He will be a good representative to the international community:

Obama is a thoughtful and eloquent speaker and he carries himself like a president should. The current president's foreign policy has been a failure and its to a point where America is losing its place in the world. i think Obama can help get us there. I think he wants to rebuild some fractured relationships. I think he wants to see if we can negotiate a peace with some of our enemies. This John Wayne style of foreign policy doesnt work. I think Obama's way will be good for us.

2. Tax Policy that helps the middle class:

Tax breaks to the people who need it. Build America up from the middle instead of using this Trickle down, supply side theory that has proven to be an utter failure. If anyone wants to debate this we can any day. This will be good for us all, even the rich that are being taxed more.

3. End this war in Iraq:

It was a mistake in 2003 and it is still is. One of the reasons that we are in this economic mess is because of the financial strain of the war (another discussion). Too many have died and its time to get our soldiers OUT. This will be good for all of us.



Do you want more?

1. I'm stunned that you actually believe this. Negotiate with our enemies?
2. I'm sure all the people that benefited from the growth in our ecomomy the last 25 years, you know the people that made money in their retirement accounts on the growth of the stockmarket, would beg to differ. You surely forgot the wonderful economy that Mr Carter left us with with. You also seem to ignore our place in the worlds ecomony and the growth that our ecnomy has spurred worledwide. Funny how when our economy tanks, everybody else does too. Yet when other economic powers like Japan's economy tanked the rest of the world kept churning along. Everyone is in a anic right now but we are still way better off than we are during the Carter administration9not that old jimmy should take all the blame)
3. It is really not that simple.

[Mortimer]

That's it??

Only 3 after all that thought?




And THOSE 3??















Jinxing Coaches picks may be more your thing...honest.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

That's it??

Only 3 after all that thought?




And THOSE 3??















Jinxing Coaches picks may be more your thing...honest.

I love you mort. You ever heard of obama girl? If you were ever to run, I would be mortimer girl!

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I love you mort. You ever heard of obama girl? If you were ever to run, I would be mortimer girl!

Oh my God.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

yeah, negotiate with our enemies. Is that so unheard of? At one time, china was an enemy. So was Russia. What do we have to lose by sitting down?

2. Supply side economics. What do you think is going on right now? Do you think that this is just the unwinding of the housing bubble or do you think this might be the unwinding of a 25 year credit bubble. Think about that.

I hate to inform you of this but Russia is still our enemy. Maybe we are not at cold war status but they aint our friend. The problem with this theory is that in negotiations you have to give and take and what exactly does Iran or North Korea or radical Islam as a whole have to offer us? They will ask for things that we dont want to or shouldnt do like give them weapons, money, both or worse, credability.

Like Obama is going to call Iran and tell them " Hey dude, dont nuke us, I am lot cooler than that Bush guy. here is a few billion to use at your discretion" and they will love us? The easiest way to maintain power is to have a primary enemy for your population that you can blame for your own shortcomings. We are that excuse. Why would they want to lose that edge? Because Obama has a nice personality?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

Like I said yesterday, neither Obama or McCain is very good, unfortunately they are all we have.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Oh my God.

More like Morty's Chick with a dick.

[dalakhani]

[quote=Cannon Shell]?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

QUOTE]

Socialism isnt the opposite of supply side. Its keynesian economics.

Supply side economics has devastated the middle class. its created a system where wages have all but flattened in relationship to growth since 1980.

Where did all of these wonderful tax cuts go? Are you aware of what the deficit has done since the onset of supply side? ARe you aware of the degree to which the disparity between rich and poor has grown?

And Whose backs has the economy grown on? The backs of the workers who have seen the smallest increase in wages (inflation adjusted) during any other time in our history.

What was the deficit in 1980? What is the deficit now?

The "growth" was partly an illusion. We became an economy based mainly on credit, not the production of goods and services.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

More like Morty's Chick with a dick.

Listen, i really dont feel like going back and forth with you. You are gay and in erie. I am happy for you.

Go find someone to talk about Moss with. The grown ups arre talking now.

[Danzig]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

QUOTE]

Socialism isnt the opposite of supply side. Its keynesian economics.

Supply side economics has devastated the middle class. its created a system where wages have all but flattened in relationship to growth since 1980.

Where did all of these wonderful tax cuts go? Are you aware of what the deficit has done since the onset of supply side? ARe you aware of the degree to which the disparity between rich and poor has grown?

And Whose backs has the economy grown on? The backs of the workers who have seen the smallest increase in wages (inflation adjusted) during any other time in our history.

What was the deficit in 1980? What is the deficit now?

The "growth" was partly an illusion. We became an economy based mainly on credit, not the production of goods and services.

remind me again how obama is going to take care of that pesky deficit? how he'll balance the budget? oh, that's right...not in the works in either candidates plan.

also, isn't obama proposing tax increases on corporations and small business? how will that help most americans, since most of us either run, or work for a corporation/small business? isn't anything that harms business also going to harm employees?

also, since obama said he's going to hold off on cap gains tax increases due to the economy, doesn't that also put a hold on his tax cuts to the middle class?

[dalakhani]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

remind me again how obama is going to take care of that pesky deficit? how he'll balance the budget? oh, that's right...not in the works in either candidates plan.

also, isn't obama proposing tax increases on corporations and small business? how will that help most americans, since most of us either run, or work for a corporation/small business? isn't anything that harms business also going to harm employees?

also, since obama said he's going to hold off on cap gains tax increases due to the economy, doesn't that also put a hold on his tax cuts to the middle class?

People act like large corporations actually pass on profits and tax relief. I got news...they dont. Stats back this up.

As for small business, the overwheming majority of small business owners make less than 250k so there will be no tax increase.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

More like Morty's Chick with a dick.

If I ever find out this is true I will stick your entire worthless body into Hossy's zipper.

[Danzig]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

People act like large corporations actually pass on profits and tax relief. I got news...they dont. Stats back this up.

As for small business, the overwheming majority of small business owners make less than 250k so there will be no tax increase.

the overwhelming majority? you sure about that? what's the cutoff point before you're no longer a small business? i remember i had cbs on after the last debate, and the talking heads on there also questioned obama's assertions that most small businesses make less than that.

[dalakhani]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

the overwhelming majority? you sure about that? what's the cutoff point before you're no longer a small business? i remember i had cbs on after the last debate, and the talking heads on there also questioned obama's assertions that most small businesses make less than that.

Here are the medians:


http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...usiness/Salary

[Danzig]

"The U.S. Small Business Administration Office of Advocacy estimates the total number of "small" firms with fewer than 500 workers reached 26.8 million in 2006. That's the most recent estimate. But it is also inflated. Since the total U.S. population was just under 300 million in 2006, it would mean that one in every 11 Americans – men, women and children – is a "small-business owner."

It turns out, SBA's estimate includes more than 20 million "nonemployer" firms, an unknown number of them sideline or hobby businesses run by persons who actually make their living some other way. Census and SBA count as a "small business" anyone who reported as little as $1,000 of business receipts."


now i see why i was wondering about their numbers...apparently any and every type of second income is classified as a small business. my idea of a small business is something like where i work, which does far more than 250k a year. i didn't realize they counted every ebay seller or baby sitter, kid who does yard work, etc.

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

?

Blaming supply side for the current crisis is like blaming United and American for 9/11. Socialism is far from the answer despite our recent left leaning bent from the govt.

QUOTE]


Supply side economics has devastated the middle class. its created a system where wages have all but flattened in relationship to growth since 1980.

Where did all of these wonderful tax cuts go? Are you aware of what the deficit has done since the onset of supply side? ARe you aware of the degree to which the disparity between rich and poor has grown?

And Whose backs has the economy grown on? The backs of the workers who have seen the smallest increase in wages (inflation adjusted) during any other time in our history.

What was the deficit in 1980? What is the deficit now?

The "growth" was partly an illusion. We became an economy based mainly on credit, not the production of goods and services.

You argue the middle class is being abused yet you make the point of Rich and Poor? Shouldnt the middle class be included in there somewhere? What about the people in the middle class that have invested and made money that was not available to them befoe the growth of economy? What about the growth of high paying jobs that are created by a growing ecomomy? What about the rest of the world who benefited from our model and growth? It is such a multifaceted dynamic that it cant be properly debated here. The idea that american workers are somehow underprivilged is laughable. Compared to who?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

"The U.S. Small Business Administration Office of Advocacy estimates the total number of "small" firms with fewer than 500 workers reached 26.8 million in 2006. That's the most recent estimate. But it is also inflated. Since the total U.S. population was just under 300 million in 2006, it would mean that one in every 11 Americans – men, women and children – is a "small-business owner."

It turns out, SBA's estimate includes more than 20 million "nonemployer" firms, an unknown number of them sideline or hobby businesses run by persons who actually make their living some other way. Census and SBA count as a "small business" anyone who reported as little as $1,000 of business receipts."


now i see why i was wondering about their numbers...apparently any and every type of second income is classified as a small business. my idea of a small business is something like where i work, which does far more than 250k a year. i didn't realize they counted every ebay seller or baby sitter, kid who does yard work, etc.

I suppose that is why they use MEDIAN as oppose to AVERAGE

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I suppose that is why they use MEDIAN as oppose to AVERAGE

but wouldn't it still be skewed? i mean, c'mon....don't most view small business as a place with say, 30 employees? payroll, benefits? not the avon lady...
right now, any business under 500 is a small business. perhaps they should have a minimum # of employees as well...

[dalakhani]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You argue the middle class is being abused yet you make the point of Rich and Poor? Shouldnt the middle class be included in there somewhere? What about the people in the middle class that have invested and made money that was not available to them befoe the growth of economy? What about the growth of high paying jobs that are created by a growing ecomomy? What about the rest of the world who benefited from our model and growth? It is such a multifaceted dynamic that it cant be properly debated here. The idea that american workers are somehow underprivilged is laughable. Compared to who?

We werent talking about the rest of the world, we were talking about the US.

You use the term "invested and made money" and "middle class" in the same sentence. The middle class hasnt had much to invest. Look at what wages have done in relation to inflation and growth.

I have posted the numbers before would you like me to do it again?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

If I ever find out this is true I will stick your entire worthless body into Hossy's zipper.

Have fun with the jism gulping sh!t troll.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but wouldn't it still be skewed? i mean, c'mon....don't most view small business as a place with say, 30 employees? payroll, benefits? not the avon lady...
right now, any business under 500 is a small business. perhaps they should have a minimum # of employees as well...

A perfect system to me would include a cost of living adjustment that would vary from area to area.

A small business in your area may not be a small business in wheeling w va or wise county VA.