Race Fixing Debate

Help me out here, I got into an argument with a guy the other night. We both agreed that their obviously is no place for race fixing or any cheating in the sport of kings. Certainly not condoning it at all. The debate was this: the guy listed about a dozen tracks he won't play because of suspected cheating. I have no problem with that, it's your money you should feel confident and comfortable. I mentioned that their is a chance that a race being fixed can just as easily help your wager as it can make your ticket a loser.

You throw out a horse you don't like, who actually could have hit the board but is kept out of the money. You love a huge longshot that actually would not have a chance, but they juice him up and does run for you.

My point being, I hate the race fixing, we all do, but it never really goes through my mind when I bet a race because the way I look at it maybe the races fixed that end up helping me cancel out the others in the long run. What do you think?

Originally Posted by seconditis

Help me out here, I got into an argument with a guy the other night. We both agreed that their obviously is no place for race fixing or any cheating in the sport of kings. Certainly not condoning it at all. The debate was this: the guy listed about a dozen tracks he won't play because of suspected cheating. I have no problem with that, it's your money you should feel confident and comfortable. I mentioned that their is a chance that a race being fixed can just as easily help your wager as it can make your ticket a loser.

You throw out a horse you don't like, who actually could have hit the board but is kept out of the money. You love a huge longshot that actually would not have a chance, but they juice him up and does run for you.

My point being, I hate the race fixing, we all do, but it never really goes through my mind when I bet a race because the way I look at it maybe the races fixed that end up helping me cancel out the others in the long run. What do you think?

Sometimes you can tell when something a little fishy is going on. Look at the exacta will pays--this will give you an indication of something fishy. If you have a 2-1 over a 4-1 paying $40 and then you see a 10-1 over a same 2-1 paying $31 then you know something is a bit odd.

Race fixing is rare enough where it doesn't bother me, but the amount of "inside information" in the game is ridiculous. It isn't that uncommon for trainers to use races as a setup for another race, meaning that some of these guys send out horses to run poorly and then hit them at a price in their next race. The game is full of garbage like this, but it is nothing new.

[Downthestretch55]

Race fixing????
Are you serious?
What a silly premise. So very silly.

LISTEN TO ME FOR THE LAST TIME

AS LONG AS THERE ARE OFFSHORE BOOKMAKERS PAYING TRACK ODDS , RACE FIXING WILL RUN RAMPANT AT ALL TRACKS WORLD WIDE.


You guys are ignorant. They dont bet the horses at the track anymore god wake the hell up.

And for the original poster of this message if you think race fixing evens out and helps you sometimes , sir here is a number for you to call 1-800-bets-off

The debate wasn't if races being fixed evened out in the end, but if a race being fixed could ultimately help you!!!

My Bad

My answer is still NO . Because race fixing is horrible for the sport and you will get burned 10-1 that I promise. So unless you stumble onto a 10-20 -1 shot for some odd reason and that horse is the fix you already had him so how did it help? and if you happen to catch that great exacta and the fix was in you had it anyways so your question is redundant.

Oh and a compliment to you , that line from let it ride is awesome . I just watched that the other day for the 98th time. I still think my favorite line is when vibes says he would bet his life on the horse and trotter says there a $2.00 minimum wager. LOL> good times

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by taoaracing

LISTEN TO ME FOR THE LAST TIME

AS LONG AS THERE ARE OFFSHORE BOOKMAKERS PAYING TRACK ODDS , RACE FIXING WILL RUN RAMPANT AT ALL TRACKS WORLD WIDE.


You guys are ignorant. They dont bet the horses at the track anymore god wake the hell up.

And for the original poster of this message if you think race fixing evens out and helps you sometimes , sir here is a number for you to call 1-800-bets-off

All tracks? Rampant? Telll me how. Offshore tracks will not allow you to make more than a few thousand on a race on a minor circuit?, correct?

And when you say race fixing, do you mean a single horse or do you mean the exact order of finish? It's certainly possible to hold a single horse back. Sure that happens. But to get a race to come out with the 1-2 or 1-2-3 finishers as "ordained?" Virtually impossible. No more likely than you getting Durkin's job by coming here and elsewhere and trashing him..

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by seconditis

My point being, I hate the race fixing, we all do, but it never really goes through my mind when I bet a race because the way I look at it maybe the races fixed that end up helping me cancel out the others in the long run. What do you think?

I think that if you are a dart thrower who throws his/her darts very late in the betting, then what you say is true. However, if you are a skilled capper, then fixing hurts you.

Say, just for argument, that 10% of the races you bet on have a predermined winner because those races are fixed. Then that means your capping has no correlation to the outcome of those races. You may "benefit" from the fix or you may suffer from the fix. But you are in the same situation as the dart thrower. Your skill is irrelevant. On those fixed races, you can do no better than the track take, and perhaps worse. (I say "perhaps worse" for reasons I'll bring up in a new thread.)

Most of us cap with the idea that we are going to do better than lose at the track take. So, race fixing would hurt us.

--Dunbar

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by seconditis

Help me out here, I got into an argument with a guy the other night. We both agreed that their obviously is no place for race fixing or any cheating in the sport of kings. Certainly not condoning it at all. The debate was this: the guy listed about a dozen tracks he won't play because of suspected cheating. I have no problem with that, it's your money you should feel confident and comfortable. I mentioned that their is a chance that a race being fixed can just as easily help your wager as it can make your ticket a loser.

You throw out a horse you don't like, who actually could have hit the board but is kept out of the money. You love a huge longshot that actually would not have a chance, but they juice him up and does run for you.

My point being, I hate the race fixing, we all do, but it never really goes through my mind when I bet a race because the way I look at it maybe the races fixed that end up helping me cancel out the others in the long run. What do you think?

that was kind of funny. You obviously are a possitive guy. Kind of like saying after a car accident, "my car needed to be washed anyway."

[TheSpyder]

Race fixing is the same as the 15%-20% handle being taken out only it's selective. In otherwords if you play the game some % is lost when a fixed race doesn't finish fair and you would have won that race otherwise. Just another or the infinate variables you're up against that you might miss i.e. track bias, wind bias, bad trip, the jockey falls at the start, the horse is extra washy, milkshakes, and on and on and on. IF there's a fax and you lucky to have it, it's the same as all those variables helping you

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

No more likely than you getting Durkin's job by coming here and elsewhere and trashing him..

great point. picking a cold super is far more likely than this guy breaking out of the bush league harness tracks.

I see races where I get angry and know that something was up, but I don't know that fixed applies. Funny I should read this post today after the tantrum I threw yesterday talking about a race that STANK!!!!!!!!!!! CD is one track I don't trust, just like your buddy, I see a lot game playing and it stinks.
Yesterday they have a 1 3/8 MSW on the turf for colts. So I look at the race and make out a pik-3 that started in the race before that one. They open the betting for the race and Byrne's horse opens shjhockingly at 2-1. I knew I was dead right there. This horse should have been 20-1, not 2-1. Two starts in Europe, one on grass, both at lower ecelon tracks and both races tragic. Two starts in USA on dirt, beaten about 65 lengths in those races. No lasix change, no blinker change, no trainer change, nothing. Just back on grass. Horse makes a ridiculously loose lead(despite the fact that at least two horses should have been ahead of him, especially with those fractions) and wins by about 6. No please, whos kidding who. Its nonsense and if you want to tell me that race was on the level I have some real estate in the everglades to sell you. I mean after the race you can always say well leparoux was riding him and he was by Dynaformer but please, who was his sire when he got beat 100 lengths in 4 starts before? Including a grass start. Did they change sires? Please, that race was as phony as a 3 dollar bill and for that horse to open at 2-1 and go off 4-1 was a joke. And then they just give the horse a lead that loose in fractions that slow. yeah, ok, sure. File that one under the very suspicious race department. If I was a steward a lot of folks would have been called into my office on that one.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I see races where I get angry and know that something was up, but I don't know that fixed applies. Funny I should read this post today after the tantrum I threw yesterday talking about a race that STANK!!!!!!!!!!! CD is one track I don't trust, just like your buddy, I see a lot game playing and it stinks.
Yesterday they have a 1 3/8 MSW on the turf for colts. So I look at the race and make out a pik-3 that started in the race before that one. They open the betting for the race and Byrne's horse opens shjhockingly at 2-1. I knew I was dead right there. This horse should have been 20-1, not 2-1. Two starts in Europe, one on grass, both at lower ecelon tracks and both races tragic. Two starts in USA on dirt, beaten about 65 lengths in those races. No lasix change, no blinker change, no trainer change, nothing. Just back on grass. Horse makes a ridiculously loose lead(despite the fact that at least two horses should have been ahead of him, especially with those fractions) and wins by about 6. No please, whos kidding who. Its nonsense and if you want to tell me that race was on the level I have some real estate in the everglades to sell you. I mean after the race you can always say well leparoux was riding him and he was by Dynaformer but please, who was his sire when he got beat 100 lengths in 4 starts before? Including a grass start. Did they change sires? Please, that race was as phony as a 3 dollar bill and for that horse to open at 2-1 and go off 4-1 was a joke. And then they just give the horse a lead that loose in fractions that slow. yeah, ok, sure. File that one under the very suspicious race department. If I was a steward a lot of folks would have been called into my office on that one.

Couldnt have said it better myself. That race was totally off. But oh well...what can u do. Horse racing survives by taking advantage of the bettor.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Couldnt have said it better myself. That race was totally off. But oh well...what can u do. Horse racing survives by taking advantage of the bettor.

That race was more than off, that race was professional wrestling on a grass course. There was a script and everyone knew who was gonna win before it went off.

[PeteMugg]

Early money. Legit or not, early money.

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Early money. Legit or not, early money.

It wasnt legit and it wasnt just early money, it was in between and late money as well. Look at those pp's and tell me how that horse could possibly go off that price, make the loose lead that slow, and win by that many. No way, no how, uh uh. Noone even tried to bother him in those fractions. Phony race.

[PeteMugg]

Mike, I'm not disputing it. I'm just saying it's something I always watch. Many times it's a longshot I don't consider and the odds often climb back up a bit. Worth noting.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Couldnt have said it better myself. That race was totally off. But oh well...what can u do. Horse racing survives by taking advantage of the bettor.

Oddly enough, the 1 Raydiation was one of only 3 horses I liked in this race, partly on pedigree grounds. Sire Dynaformer, nuf said, and his Argentine mum gave him the stamina he needed to keep on.He was one of the few horses in the race who wasn't likely to start gasping for breath at the quarter-pole. Unfortunately for me, I lumped on the one of the 3 who didn't finish in the exacta - Mercatus (who is out of a half-sister to Derby winner St. Jovite).