McLaughlin with 3 positives; Gets 30 day ban..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Gander

Chuck: You are like the Derek Jeter of horse racing. Good for you to have morals!

that may have been the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me! Wish I had his black book skills.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by ELA

So, you have the label of "cheater" -- Dutrow being mentioned here. You want to call him a cheater, OK. Who is next?
Eric

I love the "guilt by relation" play by some.

Because Rick has been accused of cheating, then Tony and Chip must do the same.

[randallscott35]

I am waiting for Godolpin positives by the way. Brown has been out in front of talking about how the entire barn turned at the end of June. Every horse seemingly running tops.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by phystech

I love the "guilt by relation" play by some.

Because Rick has been accused of cheating, then Tony and Chip must do the same.

Surely like the various assistants under Lukas who set out on their own and somehow find positives at their fingertips.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

How do they hide the nebulizer for this drug? It has no efficacy when given orally or when absorbed through the mucus membranes (lets say they place it in the mouth).

If this is the drug, they are nebulizing as close to walkover to the pre-race holding as possible (as the drug effect is so short). I can only think they would be trying to give COPD horses an advantage after their pre-race clenbuterol withdrawal, but it sure wouldn't be much with this.

BTW, this drug has been shown not to have any change on exercise ability. It's not much alone.

I'll try to say this a kindly as possible but you are putting out misleading info while being absolutely offbase.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by phystech

I love the "guilt by relation" play by some.

Because Rick has been accused of cheating, then Tony and Chip must do the same.

Uh I cant say much more but .......



Of course there are the Barrera brothers as an example. They were completely seperate juicers.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh I cant say much more but .......


Of course there are the Barrera brothers as an example. They were completely seperate juicers.

I wasn't referring to either of Rick's brothers when I made my "who is next" statement. However, in my mind Chuck, it's not that easy. As a matter of fact, it could easily happen to one of the "good guys" -- like you.

In my experience, where there's smoke there's fire, almost always has collateral damage so to speak. Stricter rules, universal and uniform medication rules and governance, yes, I am absolutely all for that. But I think we need to be very careful when emotions, what we "just know, etc., supersedes what we are really trying to obtain.

Sure, the present system doesn't work. But not every system will be better than what we have.

Eric

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh I cant say much more but .......



Of course there are the Barrera brothers as an example. They were completely seperate juicers.

Everybody is always off base if their opinion is different then yours.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

I wasn't referring to either of Rick's brothers when I made my "who is next" statement. However, in my mind Chuck, it's not that easy. As a matter of fact, it could easily happen to one of the "good guys" -- like you.

In my experience, where there's smoke there's fire, almost always has collateral damage so to speak. Stricter rules, universal and uniform medication rules and governance, yes, I am absolutely all for that. But I think we need to be very careful when emotions, what we "just know, etc., supersedes what we are really trying to obtain.

Sure, the present system doesn't work. But not every system will be better than what we have.

Eric

Actually Eric it cant happen to me. While I am certainly eligible to get a positive test as is anyone who runs a horse under the current system but the pattern of abuse of some is damning. The danger is the Freddy mo message that the guys are good horseman who feel the need to keep up. That is simply not acceptable. Zero tolerence is not the answer because the system is flawed but in cases like this latest positive that headlines this thread, it is far fetched to believe this wasn't a cut and dried case of cheating.

Obviously there is a lot left unsaid and much of the truth never reaches the public but the fact is that there are very few guys with "suspicious" reputations that aren't well deserved.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The only thing that surprised me was it took them so long.

now he will get some new owners...

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh I cant say much more but .......



Of course there are the Barrera brothers as an example. They were completely seperate juicers.

Has Tony Dutrow ever had a positive? Been fined/suspended ?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Everybody is always off base if their opinion is different then yours.

Perhaps because my opinion is reality based using facts and the truth? I would certainly be in the position to "know" a whole lot more than most, no? Perhaps because I actually know these people, the people that work and have worked for them? Maybe because i have interactions with medications and vets every day? Maybe because I have still have contacts from my days on the other side of the table? Perhaps I might know what I am talking about because I have lived this game everyday for years in just about every capacity? Ever think that I may have to bite my tongue on occasion because I know things in confidence?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Has Tony Dutrow ever had a positive? Been fined/suspended ?

Dont know.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont know.

Then you probably shouldn't imply it. Would kind of be like me implying that you cheat. Nothing to base it on.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Then you probably shouldn't imply it. Would kind of be like me implying that you cheat. Nothing to base it on.

You asked me about the past, not the upcoming future.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

That is a BS tactic.

Tactic? Read between the lines a little.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You asked me about the past, not the upcoming future.

So you are saying he is gonna get nailed for a positive. I didn't know you could predict the future.


Impressive.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

So you are saying he is gonna get nailed for a positive. I didn't know you could predict the future.


Impressive.

I called McLaughlin. Even said what class of drug it would be.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I know what you meant.

So what is your beef? I am not the bad guy, they are.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually Eric it cant happen to me. While I am certainly eligible to get a positive test as is anyone who runs a horse under the current system but the pattern of abuse of some is damning. The danger is the Freddy mo message that the guys are good horseman who feel the need to keep up. That is simply not acceptable. Zero tolerence is not the answer because the system is flawed but in cases like this latest positive that headlines this thread, it is far fetched to believe this wasn't a cut and dried case of cheating.

Obviously there is a lot left unsaid and much of the truth never reaches the public but the fact is that there are very few guys with "suspicious" reputations that aren't well deserved.

Sorry about that Chuck -- not really what I meant. I was not inferring to a positive you might get vs. a pattern of abuse. On that, I agree with you.

What I meant was more that the "where there's smoke, there's fire" thing can happen to you as it has others. You could pick up a new owner who knows how to play the game and lets you spot horses aggressively. Compoung that with claiming a few from a few 3% trainers who have given up on a horse or missed something huge, now you move those up. Now you get another owner, and another. Things get rolling. Buy one for the owner and win a stake or two. Do well at a few high profile meets. All of a sudden people are talking about Chuck Simon who may never have had a positive test ever before -- and now they are saying where there's smoke there's fire.

Regardless, and again I agree, I do think there are very few guys who have "suspicious" reputations that are not deserved. Well deserved? Sure there are some which certainly are well deserved, and there are a few that I think are not, but I do agree.

Eric