A question on Easy Goer...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

would you two be up for a trip to Gulfstream?

just throwing it out there. i wanna take H there this year. Maybe FoY weekend.

Certainly a possibility, all depends on what the costs come out too. My mortgage payments have to take first priority.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Certainly a possibility, all depends on what the costs come out too. My mortgage payments have to take first priority.

Mine too, but we'll go budget, of course. I'll cover the hotel and expenses, you two just get your fannies on a plane.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

Mine too, but we'll go budget, of course. I'll cover the hotel and expenses, you two just get your fannies on a plane.

Keep me posted, if we can go budget I'd definitely be down. I'll look into it at work tomorrow.

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd be curious to see how Azeri stacked up against some of the greatest and well-regarded fillies of yesteryear if you have a comparision.

Azeri (Faster than current champs, not historically fast)
BC Classic - 109
Spinster - 108
Personal Ensign - 97
Go For Wand 106
Phipps - 78
Met Mile - 103
Humana - 99
Apple Blossom - 112

Lady's Secret - 101
Hirsch - 100
Vanity - 109
Milady - 109
Apple Blossom - 105

BC Distaff - 111
Lady's Secret - 102
Hirsch - 101
Vanity - 107
Milady - 109
Apple Blossom - 110
Santa Marg. - 110
La Canada -105
100-103-94

Also, nothing on King Glorious unfortunately (I'm curious myself),

Risen Star - 106 Derby, 110 Preakness. Seem to recall his Belmont being 118 or so.

Pine Bluff - 98-93-78-74-78 as a 2 yo (last 5 starts), 106 in Southwest. Think his Ark Derby was in the 105-107 range. His Belmont was a 110.

No clue on Caveat or Creme Fraiche - sorry.

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

That wasn't the way I saw it. It looked to me simply that Pincay moved over into Alydar's path as Alydar was flying up the inside, and Alydar clipped heels and almost went down.

How did Shake Shake Shake figure into it? (have to laugh at us arguing a race we saw almost 30 years ago!)

--Dunbar

As I recall SSS, the pacesetter, floated Affirmed wide as he was making his move. At the same time Alydar was making his move up the rail. When Pincay thought he was clear he moved toward the rail only to cut off the fast moving Alydar coming up the inside.

That damn duo cost me from May thru August. I bet Aly in all three TC races and then finally had had enough and switched to Affirmed for the Travers only to be DQed

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

That damn duo cost me from May thru August. I bet Aly in all three TC races and then finally had had enough and switched to Affirmed for the Travers only to be DQed

That's like St Liam for me. He first cost me a matchup bet that Ghostzapper would win by open lengths. But I was so impressed by St Liam in that race that I took a future on him for the 2004 BC Classic at 17-1. Of course, they passed the BC Classic that year. Early in the next year I took him in that Calif race that he lost. By the time the BC came around, I thought he was not as tough as the previous year and bet against him. Wrong every time. Loved the horse anyway.

--Dunbar

Heres some Easy Goer trivia.
On Travers Day, when Easy Goer won, a 2nd time starter in the last race completed the chalk Daily Double. He added blinkers and was saddled by Richard Dutrow Sr. and ridden by Angel Cordero and won by the length of the stretch. What was his name?

[blackthroatedwind]

Can't be Lite the Fuse, as Krone rode him, and even though he broke his maiden in the finale at Saratoga, it was as a firster in a NW1X.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Can't be Lite the Fuse, as Krone rode him, and even though he broke his maiden in the finale at Saratoga, it was as a firster in a NW1X.

Oh that was a glorious day. I rejoiced at that one. Someone I knew from Maryland, who I believe you know as well, told me that the horse couldn't possibly lose.
I singled him at the back end of the pik-3, and although he got absolutely hammered in the win pool, the pik-3 with him buried was quite generous.
I will never forget the look on the faces of the folks when he opened up on the tote board at some ridiculously low price, it was basically the look of "I'm screwed here" in my pk-3.

And if BTW doesn't know, I guess noone else will either.
The horses name was Flag Football. He rocketed out of the gate and opened a huge lead and was an area code in front when they hit the top of the stretch. I think the DD paid 9.80.

[blackthroatedwind]

I have no memory of that horse whatsoever.

I'm usually pretty good with those.

What two horses combined for a chalky late double at Hialeah on Widener Day in 1988? The second half won by something like 18 1/2 lengths in its debut. As a further clue to make it REALLY easy....they were stablemates.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Cigar was the first dramatically overrated horse of the spate of overrated horses we have seen. He was a trendsetter!

Skip Away was better, on his best days, and he ran some great races, but I wouldn't call him a great horse.

There is a broader view of "greatness" that doesn't rely wholly on speed. I think it's appropriate to factor in durability and consistency. It's pretty clear that Cigar was about as consistent as they come. Bravado's list shows 16 races with Beyer's of 111 or above. How many different tracks did Cigar win at?

I love a horse like Ghostzapper, too. But if we imagine a hypothetical year in which Cigar faced Ghostzapper 10 times at a 3-4 week spacing, each race at a different track, who do you think would have won the most races? I'd bet on Cigar. Ghostzapper would certainly have beaten Cigar when both ran their best race, but Cigar ran close to his best race over and over again, and it was pretty damn good no matter where it was. He ran Beyers of 117-121 six times. And how about that race in Dubai? I would call Cigar a "great" horse.

--Dunbar

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have no memory of that horse whatsoever.

I'm usually pretty good with those.

What two horses combined for a chalky late double at Hialeah on Widener Day in 1988? The second half won by something like 18 1/2 lengths in its debut. As a further clue to make it REALLY easy....they were stablemates.

Well the clue was the 18 1/2 length win.
Thats Shug, thats Seeking the Gold.
One of my favorite horses ever was Personal Flag and I believe he won that race.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

There is a broader view of "greatness" that doesn't rely wholly on speed. I think it's appropriate to factor in durability and consistency. It's pretty clear that Cigar was about as consistent as they come. Bravado's list shows 16 races with Beyer's of 111 or above. How many different tracks did Cigar win at?

I love a horse like Ghostzapper, too. But if we imagine a hypothetical year in which Cigar faced Ghostzapper 10 times at a 3-4 week spacing, each race at a different track, who do you think would have won the most races? I'd bet on Cigar. Ghostzapper would certainly have beaten Cigar when both ran their best race, but Cigar ran close to his best race over and over again, and it was pretty damn good no matter where it was. He ran Beyers of 117-121 six times. And how about that race in Dubai? I would call Cigar a "great" horse.

--Dunbar

I would agree that Cigar's one truly exceptional quality was the ability to perform at a very high level with true consistency. He was obviously a terrific horse but he was nowhere close to an all-time great.

I'm sure Ghostzapper had issues, but I'm also sure having a trainer that seems to consider scratching better than winning didn't help his career resume, and Cigar was obviously more durable. So, he certainly rated to make more money than Ghostzapper, but his best race was not good enough to beat Ghostzapper on a normal day. Not that far off however.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well the clue was the 18 1/2 length win.
Thats Shug, thats Seeking the Gold.
One of my favorite horses ever was Personal Flag and I believe he won that race.

Yeah...I liked him as well.

It's funny to think that 10 months later they were an entry in the BC Classic...and the maiden breaker beat the winner of the Widener ( while finishing second ).

In 1993 Shug debuted two future grade one winning fillies on the SAME CARD at Belmont Park in split divisions of a two year old MSW. Both destroyed their fields.
Name them.

[blackthroatedwind]

Come on. Who do you think you're talking to?

Inside Info and Heavenly Prize.

Who was the undefeated favorite when Heavenly Prize won the Frizette in her next start.

I also believe Cordero ( as a trainer ) won with a first time starter ( at around 9-1 ) earlier on the Frizette card. Name him!

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Come on. Who do you think you're talking to?

Inside Info and Heavenly Prize.

Who was the undefeated favorite when Heavenly Prize won the Frizette in her next start.

I also believe Cordero ( as a trainer ) won with a first time starter ( at around 9-1 ) earlier on the Frizette card. Name him!

Strategic Manuever.
You have me on the firster though.

[blackthroatedwind]

Well, if you got that answer you would have to get some sort of special award. That was probably even more random than your Dutrow horse.

I want to say it was Rogue's Walk but I'm not certain.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, if you got that answer you would have to get some sort of special award. That was probably even more random than your Dutrow horse.

I want to say it was Rogue's Walk but I'm not certain.

The only firster I remember him winning with was the where he told Jan Rushton in the paddock that the horse had been purchased to be a pony for the owners kid and wasn't fast. She reported this in the paddock report and the horse jogged home and paid a fortune. Lots of angry bettors that day.
Even for Angel, that wasn't very nice.