Joel Rosario

[SCUDSBROTHER]

You're gunna have a lot of win tickets on price horses running 2nd to Frankel's chalk. It's like his hobby is looking for the soft spots on a baby's head. He usually finds it.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by GPK

^^butt kisser

choo betcha

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What will reminding him everytime Rosario wins a grade 1 prove? What bearing will those events have on his ride yesterday? I'm not picking a fight, but I never understood when someone brings up a bad ride, or a percieved bad ride. Eventually someone will bring up the jocks next win, or something like that as if it has anything to do with what is being talked about. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Actually, it has nothing to do with yesterday's ride. What i am responding to is the claim that Rosario doesnt get grade 1 mounts because he chokes.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I think you had a win ticket on a horse that didn't win. Your rant is called SOUR GRAPES. My Beagle is the only one that has to listen when I have a loser, except when the rider is Alex Solis. Time to move on.

Thats funny.....I guess every time someone criticizes a jock that it's sour grapes...they had a huge win bet....etc.

I didnt have a DIME on the race. I just was watching the race and noticed what a bad decision it was by Rosario. I know this board is full of love and cheer and some people who are blind to the obvious, but believe it or not, these jocks do make stupid decisions.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I watched the race again. Its not like he went ten wide. He angled the horse outside for clear run and what he lost in ground he gained back in momentum. The inside horse (winchester), hadnt yet died and as they went around the turn, the jockey whipped left handed twice forcing Obrigado out a smidge further while opening up the hole for the winner.

"choking" implies that Rosario was on the horse that was much the best and his ride killed the chances of his mount. This is hardly the case. He was on a 23-1 shot and lost to the favorite. He put his horse in great position.

For the record, he hasnt gotten grade 1 mounts because this is his first full season of riding in So Cal and there just arent very many grade 1 mounts to go around down there. He will get many grade 1 wins in his career and I will be sure to remind you every time he wins one.

Obrigado was much the best yesterday...even Stevie Wonder would agree. When a jock loses on the best horse he chokes....makes a horrible decision..whatever you want to call it. Yesterday he cost Obrigado a Grade I win.

Rosario is an average jock. Because the so-cal colony is so weak he does get the wins. But when they run grade I's out there, the real riders show up.

I will anxiously be awaiting your post when he gets a grade I win. I figure I will check back with you in 2011.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I just watched the replay of the race 5 times. I'm not sure "choke" is the right word either, but his decision to go outside instead of stay inside like Valdivia did absolutely cost him the win. I'm not sure how that can even be debated.

But, up to that point he had his horse in a perfect spot. No shame in getting outridden by Valdivia on the turf as I think he's a fantastic turf rider. But, Rosario should have won that race IMO. And I can absolutely understand someone that bet Obrigado having a beef with the outcome or thinking that the rider of Obrigado cost the horse the win. Especially with the finish so close.

Thank you. Again..I didnt bet the horse..was making a point. If you want to subsitute "Choke" with "stupid decision" thats fine.

Rosario is an ok jock.....my point is...he completely blew the race yesterday.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I just watched the replay of the race 5 times. I'm not sure "choke" is the right word either, but his decision to go outside instead of stay inside like Valdivia did absolutely cost him the win. I'm not sure how that can even be debated.

But, up to that point he had his horse in a perfect spot. No shame in getting outridden by Valdivia on the turf as I think he's a fantastic turf rider. But, Rosario should have won that race IMO. And I can absolutely understand someone that bet Obrigado having a beef with the outcome or thinking that the rider of Obrigado cost the horse the win. Especially with the finish so close.

I disagree with your assessment of the horse's chances. How do you know that if Obrigado stays inside that smullen doesnt try to shut the door on him inside? Remember, he whips left handed around the turn forcing Obrigado outside two paths. Champs, on class, is about 20 lengths ahead of Obrigado on paper. How do you know champs doesnt break outside for the big run?

All of these different factors and you can say unequivically that the ride cost him the race? Valdivia is an excellent turf rider but he its easy in a race like that to sit chilly when you are on the best horse. If he gets shut off inside, champs is good enough to make a run to the outside. Does this not make any sense? Or are you really under the notion that Obrigado was "much the best" in any race that isnt claiming?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Joel had to make a decision. We have all seen situations where that Mr. Chairman could have tired, and Winchester could have kept Obrigado stuck down on the rail. That could of happened to Valdivia too. Both horses had run, and got a clean chance to show it. Fact is the winner had a lot more to give at the top(and middle) of the stretch. Obrigado didn't have that burst, and it's not because he went a lil wider than the winner. It's because he is twenty some odd to 1. He's not as good. Joel makes it look close at the end because he is good, but the time to run was earlier than that, and he didn't have the stuff to give that the winner did. I will take that ride on Obrigado any day, because I have lost a lot more races doing what Valdivia did(hope for perfect trip, and get out.) Weren't there guys that tried that last weekend, and Dominguez came wide to blow by them? How many races has Nakatani lost by being on the rail and expecting others to give him a way out? A lot. Looks smart when you get it, but I have lost a lot more races due to guys expecting that perfect way out that Valdivia got. Looks pretty when it goes well. Looks pretty crappy if that 6 had backed up and Smullen had locked somebody down on the rail. Look going into the 1st turn of this race. Smullen makes a bit of a dangerous move to cut Rosario off a lil bit. I don't think he wanted that to happen again. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WOULD OF TAKEN PLACE IF SMULLEN HAD MORE HORSE, AND CHAIRMAN TIRED.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Joel had to make a decision. We have all seen situations where that Mr. Chairman could have tired, and Winchester could have kept Obrigado stuck down on the rail. That could of happened to Valdivia too. Both horses had run, and got a clean chance to show it. Fact is the winner had a lot more to give at the top(and middle) of the stretch. Obrigado didn't have that burst, and it's not because he went a lil wider than the winner. It's because he is twenty some odd to 1. He's not as good. Joel makes it look close at the end because he is good, but the time to run was earlier than that, and he didn't have the stuff to give that the winner did. I will take that ride on Obrigado any day, because I have lost a lot more races doing what Valdivia did(hope for perfect trip, and get out.) Weren't there guys that tried that last weekend, and Dominguez came wide to blow by them? How many races has Nakatani lost by being on the rail and expecting others to give him a way out? A lot. Looks smart when you get it, but I have lost a lot more races due to guys expecting that perfect way out that Valdivia got. Looks pretty when it goes well. Looks pretty crappy if that 6 had backed up and Smullen had locked somebody down on the rail. Look going into the 1st turn of this race. Smullen makes a bit of a dangerous move to cut Rosario off a lil bit. I don't think he wanted that to happen again.

Perhaps the most moronic thing I have seen posted on the net. Congrats. I didn't know that as the horses went into the starting gate that they are told their odds. What happens if someone mistakenly told Champ Elysees that he was 30-1, would he not try as hard...perhaps not run well.

Perhaps you should take some time this afternoon and get fitted for a dunce cap.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Perhaps the most moronic thing I have seen posted on the net. Congrats. I didn't know that as the horses went into the starting gate that they are told their odds. What happens if someone mistakenly told Champ Elysees that he was 30-1, would he not try as hard...perhaps not run well.

Perhaps you should take some time this afternoon and get fitted for a dunce cap.

If you think Obrigado was as good as C.E. yesterday, then you need the dunce cap. Horse had a chance to run, and couldn't go with the better horse. Look, the horse is clear. He has every chance to go with the winner, but can't do it. He is not as good. They both had every chance to show what they had. Frankel horse has more run(real big surprise guys.) I wish you would save bad rides for when you've got run, and can't get out to show it. That is not a bad ride. That's the way this rider wins a lot of races. Like I said, you're gunna be complaining a lot about horses who come up just short against Frankel chalk. This guy is gunna tease like this. It's what he does.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

hes no eddie d....but hes a good jock..he blew that one imo

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

First of all, races aren't run on paper, as I'm sure you know. So what the 2 respective horses looked like on paper had and has nothing to do with it. .

I simply dont agree with this statement.

Jockeys read the racing form and many of the decisions they make during the race are based on past performances. A jockey isnt going to ride the favorite the same way he is going to ride a 23-1 shot.

If there was s a cheaper horse in front of him instead of Winchester (2-1), perhaps Rosario would have waited. There are a bunch of variables that go into every race so i dont know how you can say that what was on paper had nothing to do with it.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Joel had to make a decision. We have all seen situations where that Mr. Chairman could have tired, and Winchester could have kept Obrigado stuck down on the rail. That could of happened to Valdivia too. Both horses had run, and got a clean chance to show it. Fact is the winner had a lot more to give at the top(and middle) of the stretch. Obrigado didn't have that burst, and it's not because he went a lil wider than the winner. It's because he is twenty some odd to 1. He's not as good. Joel makes it look close at the end because he is good, but the time to run was earlier than that, and he didn't have the stuff to give that the winner did. I will take that ride on Obrigado any day, because I have lost a lot more races doing what Valdivia did(hope for perfect trip, and get out.) Weren't there guys that tried that last weekend, and Dominguez came wide to blow by them? How many races has Nakatani lost by being on the rail and expecting others to give him a way out? A lot. Looks smart when you get it, but I have lost a lot more races due to guys expecting that perfect way out that Valdivia got. Looks pretty when it goes well. Looks pretty crappy if that 6 had backed up and Smullen had locked somebody down on the rail. Look going into the 1st turn of this race. Smullen makes a bit of a dangerous move to cut Rosario off a lil bit. I don't think he wanted that to happen again. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WOULD OF TAKEN PLACE IF SMULLEN HAD MORE HORSE, AND CHAIRMAN TIRED.

Exactly. Its kind of like when a QB throws an intereception and the automatic reaction is that its the QB's fault. Could The receiver have made a bad read? Could The pass have been perfect but the defense just made a great play? So many variables and people focus simply on the result.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're really reaching now. You started by saying Champs was about 20 lengths better on paper (which means absolutely nothing in regards to what was actually happening in the race) and now you're saying Rosario read the form, saw it was the 2-1 Winchester and not some less bet horse and decided it would be better to go around? I just find that whole scenario hard to believe all things considered.

There was no waiting. Winchester started drifting out and instead of staying inside, like Valdivia eventually did right behind him. Rosario made the decision to go outside and Valdivia decided inside. It gave Champs the few lengths he needed and he held. Champs is a better horse than Obrigado on most days. I don't think yesterday was one of them.

First of all, races aren't run on paper, as I'm sure you know. So what the 2 respective horses looked like on paper had and has nothing to do with it

LOL. This was your statement and I disagree and stated why. What would i have to reach for?

Champs stayed inside because he was running BEHIND Obrigado. Obrigado's decision to move outside influenced Winchester to try to fan him out which created the hole for Champs.

Champs is a better horse than obrigado any day. Valdivia got a lucky trip and was allowed to stay patient because he was on the best horse.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're really reaching now. You started by saying Champs was about 20 lengths better on paper (which means absolutely nothing in regards to what was actually happening in the race) and now you're saying Rosario read the form, saw it was the 2-1 Winchester and not some less bet horse and decided it would be better to go around? I just find that whole scenario hard to believe all things considered.

If you dont think the past performances of Champs or Winchester for that matter had any impact on the way the jockeys rode the race, then i suggest you talk to a jockey and ask.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Do you know the difference it means to win a Grade I or run second ? Why don't you ask the owners of Obrigado after that ride if they are content with a 2nd place? I'm sorry if you cant see that it was a horrendous decision by Rosario, but it was.

What is your point about him being 1-9 have to do with anything? Please explain that rather idiotic remark. Obrigado's pp lines are nothing spectacular , perhaps go back and actually look at them. Again....a first place in a Grade I is a world of difference between a 2nd place. Sorry you cant comprehend that.

Noting sarcasm is not your strongest point.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Keep reaching. You're making this about everything OTHER than the decision Rosario made. You started with who was better on paper. Then you wanted to try and interpret what Rosario's thought process was. Now, you are interpreting the events of the race incorrectly.

The discussion was about the ride Rosario gave and more importantly his decisions around the turn into the stretch. What you fail to see or just don't want to, is if Rosario did what Valdivia did, he wins the race. He didn't. He decided to go outside, instead of stay in. Valdivia, like a polished rider, stayed patient, saw an opportunity and took it.

Rosario's bad decision to move out instead of stay inside enabled Champs to win. Winchester was coming out, if Rosario stays in, he has the same trip Champs got and he's in the winners circle. I also disagree Champs was the best horse yesterday. I realize it's completely subjective, but if you swith Obrigado's trip with Champs, he wins IMO.

For some reason you are unable or unwilling to grasp the idea that perhaps Obrigado doesnt win regardless of what the jockey does in that situation. And for some reason, you keep telling me that im "reaching" instead of addressing the point that i am making.

I am not debating that Champs got a better trip.

[eajinabi]

I Just dont see how Rosario cost Obrigado the race. Matter of fact he had him
in perfect position throughout, sitting chilly behind the two leaders. On the turn he had to swing to the outside to contend Mr. Chairman but Champs was in full steam and Rosario urged his horse to run in tandem with Champs but he was the better horse that day and obrigado ran very game. i dont see how he could have gotten a better trip

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I Just dont see how Rosario cost Obrigado the race. Matter of fact he had him
in perfect position throughout, sitting chilly behind the two leaders. On the turn he had to swing to the outside to contend Mr. Chairman but Champs was in full steam and Rosario urged his horse to run in tandem with Champs but he was the better horse that day and obrigado ran very game. i dont see how he could have gotten a better trip

Seems he did make the wrong decision to me.
But calling it a horrible ride is ridiculous (I know you did not).
He did a very good job early in the race of settling
a horse that imo. appeared to be a bit full of himself
for a mile and a half.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're reaching because you are bringing up things that have nothing to do with the ride. I am unwilling to grasp your idea because IMO it's incorrect. You're basing it on what the horses look like on paper and honestly you're giving Champs way too much credit. He's proven to be not the killer you're trying to make him. I'm talking about the race itself.

Do yourself a favor. Go watch the replay again. Reverse the trips the 2 horses got and tell me Champs still wins, because if Rosario stays inside, Valdivia would have to do what Rosario did.

I just watched it again. If Rosario stays inside, his path MAY be impeded by winchester who would not have tried to fan out. Champs MAY have kept the momentum even while losing a few paths and still win.

Is this not possible?