Pletcher going to California

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Makes sense. Can't stand Gulfstream, I won't bet a penny on it anymore. ANything to help field sizes in Cal is a good thing.

According to a buddy/owner, Cali has been very actively solicitling for horses this year. Big purses, small fields = happy owners/trainers.

Add the Anti Gulfstream argument over the MSW and Allowance races, with the 1 - poor saddling area in the tunnel, 2 - the small paddock ring with an elevated ramp from and to the track that trainers dislike 3 - and the piece de resistance, the short run to the turn for 1 1/8 races and no possibility of running 1 1/16 races . plus the obvious rotten purse structure. Is it any wonder that so many 3 yo horses were shipped out of town to run their preps, rather than run at Gulfstream ?

Patrick Biancone got it right and went out west for the winter and Pletcher is following and is simply making the most of a good opportunity timing wise.He will see if the Gulf slots will actually make a difference and see how things work out on the west coast. I remember that Dutrow tried the west coast thing without much success a couple of years ago too !

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by point given

According to a buddy/owner, Cali has been very actively solicitling for horses this year. Big purses, small fields = happy owners/trainers.

PG,

You're dead on...

Ric Hammerle (SA/DMR) and Marty Perez (?) of HOL were on ATRAB together Friday and said exactly the above... That the two of them have actively recruited the big outfits in the East and Midwest to bring strings their way...

[copying]

Good Luck TP! Bob Baffert owns the 2yo races out west. Frankel and D. Wayne ran coast to coast operations but eventually gave it up -- too much too spread out. Their assistants were doing the actual training...

Maybe with poly, everybody starts out even again.

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Revolution

the misinformation and attacks on gulfstream border on incompetence. the track is headed in the right direction. the training facility at palm meadows is excellent. i don't see how anyone can judge a track based on one season where they were going through growing pains. remember the kentucky derby winner, the preakness winner, and the belmont winner were all based out of gulfstream.

Ahhh a voice of reason.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...&cd=7&ie=UTF-8

Here is a link in which it talks about possible purse hikes this year at GP and by the way I am not going to talk to any owners or trainers about purse increases I will let the FHBPA do that being there the ones talking about the increases.

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Ahhh a voice of reason.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...&cd=7&ie=UTF-8

Here is a link in which it talks about possible purse hikes this year at GP and by the way I am not going to talk to any owners or trainers about purse increases I will let the FHBPA do that being there the ones talking about the increases.

I'll believe it when I see it. I've been going to Gulfstream for years and I've never been so put off by a racing facility in my life. They have succeeded in running a successful and beautiful facility into the ground and claiming that the new facility is the answer to racings future. Core audience has been put off by it all and instead trek to Tampa Bay for a fun day of racing for a winter holiday. Andy Beyers take on it was " who did they build this for ? " It's all been a mess and I am saddened by it. It will be nice when they build the grandstand for folks to sit down out of the sun and be able to watch live horses run, instead of on simulcast screens. It's pretty sad to hear horses galloping by and no cheering from the stands. If you want to get an accurate gauge , then go the the Sun Sentinal and read columns by Dave Joseph.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Then why do his KY horses train at Churchill Downs instead of Turfway? What do you think he going to say? "I have so many freaking maidens that I cant possibly run them all. Please dont send me anymore!" Business expand when they are growing and no business in racing is growing more than Todd Pletchers.

Of course that is part of it. He certainly needed a place to expand but he wasn't going to go somewhere where he thought his horses would all get hurt. I'm sure he would have brought horses out here sooner if he thought the tracks were safe out here. Now that we have safe track, he feels comfortable having a string of horses out here.

Originally Posted by Revolution

the misinformation and attacks on gulfstream border on incompetence. the track is headed in the right direction. the training facility at palm meadows is excellent. i don't see how anyone can judge a track based on one season where they were going through growing pains. remember the kentucky derby winner, the preakness winner, and the belmont winner were all based out of gulfstream.

Misinformation?
You say its headed in the right direction?
I have a few questions for you then.
1) Are the purses there not embarassingly small given the type of horses who winter there(like the ones YOU cited) and the fact that there is a huge horse population to draw from?
2) Are the weekday cards not an absolute disgrace containing nothing but cheap claimers and maiden claimers(as cited by trainers last year including Frankel when they went to management to complain about it)?
3) Was the refurbishment of Gulfstream Park not incredibly stupid and undertaken with no foresight as the mile and an eigth dirt races give an unfair advantage to the inside pp's causing trainers to scratch horses out of these races when drawing the outside?
Was it not also incredibly stupid to refurbish the oval leaving horseman without the possibility of running mile and a sixteenth two turn dirt races, something that Zito, Pletcher, etc complained about citing how vital they are for three year olds starting their tri crown campaigns who are not ready to go a mile and an eighth of the layoff yet need two turn seasoning?

Now geniuses, if one of you wants to debate me and tell me which one of these FACTS, not opinions, that you disagree with please feel free.
Otherwise stick to what it is that you know(perhaps needlepoint?), because you sure don't know much about how many people feel about the "new Gulfstream Park".

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Misinformation?
You say its headed in the right direction?
I have a few questions for you then.
1) Are the purses there not embarassingly small given the type of horses who winter there(like the ones YOU cited) and the fact that there is a huge horse population to draw from?
2) Are the weekday cards not an absolute disgrace containing nothing but cheap claimers and maiden claimers(as cited by trainers last year including Frankel when they went to management to complain about it)?
3) Was the refurbishment of Gulfstream Park not incredibly stupid and undertaken with no foresight as the mile and an eigth dirt races give an unfair advantage to the inside pp's causing trainers to scratch horses out of these races when drawing the outside?
Was it not also incredibly stupid to refurbish the oval leaving horseman without the possibility of running mile and a sixteenth two turn dirt races, something that Zito, Pletcher, etc complained about citing how vital they are for three year olds starting their tri crown campaigns who are not ready to go a mile and an eighth of the layoff yet need two turn seasoning?

Now geniuses, if one of you wants to debate me and tell me which one of these FACTS, not opinions, that you disagree with please feel free.
Otherwise stick to what it is that you know(perhaps needlepoint?), because you sure don't know much about how many people feel about the "new Gulfstream Park".

Agree, except #3.

What's so precious about being able to run 1 1/16 2-turn races at Gulfstream? There are several 9F dirt tracks as you know. They cant run 8.5F there either. It's obviously a negative for the 3 yo's but how can they really build a rack for, what, 5-10 races? People (me, at least) like 1-turn mile races and they must think they can card far more of those than they can at 1 1/16. And of course turf racing on a 1 mile track is far superior to that on a 7/8 course.

As an aside, I'd bet dollars to dimes there will not be slots at the '07 GP meet. Jeb Bush will continue his legal challenges as long as he is in office.

I agree wholeheartedly on your #1 and #2. What they put up last year (and will again this year) is a joke.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Agree, except #3.

What's so precious about being able to run 1 1/16 2-turn races at Gulfstream? There are several 9F dirt tracks as you know. They cant run 8.5F there either. It's obviously a negative for the 3 yo's but how can they really build a rack for, what, 5-10 races? People (me, at least) like 1-turn mile races and they must think they can card far more of those than they can at 1 1/16. And of course turf racing on a 1 mile track is far superior to that on a 7/8 course.

As an aside, I'd bet dollars to dimes there will not be slots at the '07 GP meet. Jeb Bush will continue his legal challenges as long as he is in office.

I agree wholeheartedly on your #1 and #2. What they put up last year (and will again this year) is a joke.

Stud last year several trainers were forced into bad situations because they wanted a two turn race off the layoff and had horses who werent ready to go a mile and an eigth. Zito and Pletcher were two of those guys.
As revolution pointed out by stating the Tri Crown race winning horses whowere stabled there, Gulf has always been known as the preparation grounds for derby trail horses. A mile and an eighth oval may be ok at some venues, but at a place synonymous with three year olds, do you really think it was the greatest idea to eliminate that distance? It forces trainers with derby trail horses to send em farther than they wanna go, or a one turn mile which doesnt help em get ready for two turn races.
Why do you think Oaklawn has has such an influx of tri crown candidates in the last few years? They have two turn races which get longer in progression and build a horse up to a fitness level.
In addition its incredibly hard to win from any post outside number 6, and even that isn't easy, when you go a mile and an eigth there.
I find it abslutely incredible that that much money could be spent putting in a fantastic racing surface and that those issues weren't addressed beforehand.
The trainers obviously agree based on the comments made over the last two years since it has been in place. How many three year olds ar ready to a mile and eigth in January? How do you adequately prep for the derby preps and even in February most guys don't wanna be sending three year olds that far in stakes races. Its too much too soon.

[jpops757]

Just look at what is important at GP. They concentrated on a 4star hotel and casino then added a racetrack.

[Scav]

you know, what is more important is who will be riding for him out there? Does Raffie make the move to Cali and dominate the circuit? it is possible, or does DeCarlo get a huge opportunity to take down some serious purses OR does my guy Mena get a huge opportunity, he had been riding for Pletcher at Turfway

Originally Posted by Scav

you know, what is more important is who will be riding for him out there? Does Raffie make the move to Cali and dominate the circuit? it is possible, or does DeCarlo get a huge opportunity to take down some serious purses OR does my guy Mena get a huge opportunity, he had been riding for Pletcher at Turfway

Gomez is going to Cali for the SA meet. I'm sure he will ride for him.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Scav

you know, what is more important is who will be riding for him out there? Does Raffie make the move to Cali and dominate the circuit? it is possible, or does DeCarlo get a huge opportunity to take down some serious purses OR does my guy Mena get a huge opportunity, he had been riding for Pletcher at Turfway

With the barn he has he can make the rider. He can pick any rider and take them to the top. I say he picks Jon Court or David Flores.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Gomez is going to Cali for the SA meet. I'm sure he will ride for him.

Do you think that Pletcher will keep riding him? With all those horrible rides he's been giving him I'd think he may look for a new rider. LOL. I'm just busting your chops.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Do you think that Pletcher will keep riding him? With all those horrible rides he's been giving him I'd think he may look for a new rider. LOL. I'm just busting your chops.

Rupert he hasn't given Pletcher the number of bad rides recently thats hes given others.
To try and defend rides like Too Much Bling, Sigfreto, and Milwaukee defies comprehension.
Hes still prone to disasters unlike Pval, Prado, and johnny who never get locked in jackpots they can't get out of for an entire race.
Gomez is going out there this winter because the purses dwarf Gulf's especially in the stakes races.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Rupert he hasn't given Pletcher the number of bad rides recently thats hes given others.
To try and defend rides like Too Much Bling, Sigfreto, and Milwaukee defies comprehension.
Hes still prone to disasters unlike Pval, Prado, and johnny who never get locked in jackpots they can't get out of for an entire race.
Gomez is going out there this winter because the purses dwarf Gulf's especially in the stakes races.

As I've said before, the overall performance is the most important thing. Sure he's given a few bad rides but I think he's also won on some horses that most other jocks would not have won. Overall, you have to admit that he's riding great. He's the leading rider at Belmont right now in terms of wins. It looks to me like most trainers back there think he's great. His business is getting really good.

[saucon17]

Maybe Ramon Dominguez will ride for him in California. R.D. has been saying he wanted to move tack to NY or Cali . This could be very good for opportunity for him to ride first call for Pletcher and he also had succes riding for Drysdale and Frankel when he went to Cali for the big days. He rides most of his horses at Delaware and takes trips to other tracks to ride for Pletcher like he did Sunday at Woodbine and won the stakes for him.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Gomez will definitely be riding for him in California. Gomes is not going to stay in New Tork for the inner-dirt meet at Aqueduct. Gomez has already said that he will go back to California during that time of the year.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

My thoughts on Polytrack:

Why not put it in Saratoga? Then they can cut down the oak trees, blacktop the backside and change the barns to concrete. They've already RUINED the place forever. What's the difference now?

I'd rather be at neglected Hialeah as opposed to any of these new outdoor casinos.

This game is sooooooooo DEAD it's a sad joke.

How did they already ruin the place forever?

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by oracle80

,
Now geniuses, if one of you wants to debate me and tell me which one of these FACTS, not opinions, that you disagree with please feel free.
Otherwise stick to what it is that you know(perhaps needlepoint?), because you sure don't know much about how many people feel about the "new Gulfstream Park".

What seems to be your problem I guess what I keep reading about you is true that you want to make everyone believe you are all knowing about everything in the business. Needle Point My A$$ I have only been here a couple of weeks I don't need to brag constantly on who I know or who I have talked too.

I have presented you with 2 articles that say slots are going to happen and increase purses at GP. Were the He!! is your facts that say that this is not going to happen. All I See is your opinion. And by trying to Implemement Slots Revolution is right saying GP is trying to go in the right Direction.