Black Monday

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Meanwhile, Jeff Fisher's just gonna keep going 7-9 every year until the end of eternity with no job security issues. Mind-boggling.

His job security there has more to do with the current nightmare the franchise is in the middle of, and less to do with his perennial failures.

The franchise is in complete flux. The owner wants out of the stadium and STL, LA prefers the Raiders. The NFL regulations would make it nearly impossible to move the team, and the lease with Edward Jones Dome precludes him from playing outside of it until it expires in 2025.

They've got a ton of problems, the least of which is the product they put on the field.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Meanwhile, Jeff Fisher's just gonna keep going 7-9 every year until the end of eternity with no job security issues. Mind-boggling.

hey, now...it was 7-8-1 last year.

ryan and the gm put on notice by buffalo. no playoffs next year, you're both gone.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

hey, now...it was 7-8-1 last year.

ryan and the gm put on notice by buffalo. no playoffs next year, you're both gone.

Ridiculous. Taylor's first year as a starter without Lesean McCoy and Sammy Watkins for a majority of the season in a very difficult division, with a top loaded schedule:

4 games with the Pats and Jets (sweeping the Jets accounting for 2 of the 6 NYJ losses) and 4 additional games against playoff bound Texans, Chiefs, Redskins, Bengals.

Absolute and complete foolishness.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Ridiculous. Taylor's first year as a starter without Lesean McCoy and Sammy Watkins for a majority of the season in a very difficult division, with a top loaded schedule:

4 games with the Pats and Jets (sweeping the Jets accounting for 2 of the 6 NYJ losses) and 4 additional games against playoff bound Texans, Chiefs, Redskins, Bengals.

Absolute and complete foolishness.

It has nothing to do with Taylor and neither McCoy nor Watkins were gone "a majority of the season". The problem is he took a top 5 defense and turned it into a bottom 10 defense with his best players openly saying they're not being used correctly. And you're giving him credit for going 1-5 against playoff teams? It's nice that he won his Super Bowl games against the Jets, but when you're purely a defensive coach and you regress as badly as they did on D, that's a big red flag.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It has nothing to do with Taylor and neither McCoy nor Watkins were gone "a majority of the season". The problem is he took a top 5 defense and turned it into a bottom 10 defense with his best players openly saying they're not being used correctly. And you're giving him credit for going 1-5 against playoff teams? It's nice that he won his Super Bowl games against the Jets, but when you're purely a defensive coach and you regress as badly as they did on D, that's a big red flag.

Spot on. Unfortunately it was a false rumor that they were given an ultimatum. Whaley has been given an extension. He is so overrated as a GM. He has major impulse control issues. When he wants something he will way overvalue it. I'd love to sit at a poker table with him. For instance drafting EJ Manual in round 1, Trading 2 #1's for Watkins in a year that was historically loaded at WR.. He grossly overpaid on an extension to McCoy who started showing injury issues at Philly and brought him into a ground and pound scheme.. What did he get for it around 800 yds and a guy who missed about a quarter of the season. Fans are giving him credit for bringing in McCoy almost as if they are crediting Whaley for McCoys stats while in Philly.. I love McCoy but he is overpriced and can't stay healthy just like Watkins, and Tyrod. Lot's of people simply give players a pass when they are injured but in my mind being able to stay on the field is an intangible asset of a player that has to be considered.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Spot on. Unfortunately it was a false rumor that they were given an ultimatum. Whaley has been given an extension. He is so overrated as a GM. He has major impulse control issues. When he wants something he will way overvalue it. I'd love to sit at a poker table with him. For instance drafting EJ Manual in round 1, Trading 2 #1's for Watkins in a year that was historically loaded at WR.. He grossly overpaid on an extension to McCoy who started showing injury issues at Philly and brought him into a ground and pound scheme.. What did he get for it around 800 yds and a guy who missed about a quarter of the season. Fans are giving him credit for bringing in McCoy almost as if they are crediting Whaley for McCoys stats while in Philly.. I love McCoy but he is overpriced and can't stay healthy just like Watkins, and Tyrod. Lot's of people simply give players a pass when they are injured but in my mind being able to stay on the field is an intangible asset of a player that has to be considered.

really? a false rumor....go figure espn running with a false rumor, again.

i know ryan said it was a guarantee they'd be in the post season this year, and of course he was wrong. overrated as a coach. he should be unemployed like his brother.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

really? a false rumor....go figure espn running with a false rumor, again.

i know ryan said it was a guarantee they'd be in the post season this year, and of course he was wrong. overrated as a coach. he should be unemployed like his brother.

Word is the front office wanted to flush out a mole in the organization and planted it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Word is the front office wanted to flush out a mole in the organization and planted it.

it's possible. it's one of my biggest pet peeves with espn, and other news orgs. they run with any and everything, so they can say they had it first. they worry about right or wrong later.

it wouldn't surprise me if he said succeed or you're gone, or if he didn't. i'm pretty sure everyone knows the price if you don't get to playoffs-and for some, even if you get there, you might still get shown the door.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It has nothing to do with Taylor and neither McCoy nor Watkins were gone "a majority of the season". The problem is he took a top 5 defense and turned it into a bottom 10 defense with his best players openly saying they're not being used correctly. And you're giving him credit for going 1-5 against playoff teams? It's nice that he won his Super Bowl games against the Jets, but when you're purely a defensive coach and you regress as badly as they did on D, that's a big red flag.

Not really a fair statement.

Ryan’s defense works a lot better when he has corners that can play good man-to-man

Last year with Jets the team had injuries, a horrific GM, and absolutely NO SECONDARY. Their CBs gave up too many big plays. This year the Jets went out and signed Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Buster Skrine and Marcus Gilchrist so Bowles could essentially run Rex's scheme.

Rex's certainly earned himself some due criticism (as you correctly pointed out) - Namely, he allowed his best pass rushers to drop into coverage as an over compensation for the lack of CB talent & he blitzed too much.

But injuries were a huge problem.

Also bear in mind this year the Bills have lost Kyle Williams, so factor that in.

It's disingenuous to compare 2014 NYJ secondary to 2015 and blame that all on Rex.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Not really a fair statement.

Ryan’s defense works a lot better when he has corners that can play good man-to-man

Last year with Jets the team had injuries, a horrific GM, and absolutely NO SECONDARY. Their CBs gave up too many big plays. This year the Jets went out and signed Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, Buster Skrine and Marcus Gilchrist so Bowles could essentially run Rex's scheme.

Rex's certainly earned himself some due criticism (as you correctly pointed out) - Namely, he allowed his best pass rushers to drop into coverage as an over compensation for the lack of CB talent & he blitzed too much.

But injuries were a huge problem.

Also bear in mind this year the Bills have lost Kyle Williams, so factor that in.

It's disingenuous to compare 2014 NYJ secondary to 2015 and blame that all on Rex.

Dude he has Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus drop into pass coverage. He shoved his ****ing half ass system down the throat of a perfectly good defense cause he is an arrogant **** who should never get another head coaching job

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by jms62

Dude he has Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus drop into pass coverage. He shoved his ****ing half ass system down the throat of a perfectly good defense cause he is an arrogant **** who should never get another head coaching job

Wow. Ok.

My only point was that he needs DB's to effectively run is scheme and he hasn't had that the past 2 years. If they continuously pass rush with no secondary, the results are the same and then he's then crucified for not dropping back into coverage.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Ridiculous. Taylor's first year as a starter without Lesean McCoy and Sammy Watkins for a majority of the season in a very difficult division, with a top loaded schedule:

4 games with the Pats and Jets (sweeping the Jets accounting for 2 of the 6 NYJ losses) and 4 additional games against playoff bound Texans, Chiefs, Redskins, Bengals.

Absolute and complete foolishness.

Before you count the Jets wins as big, their schedule was ridiculously easy this year. 10 wins, 2 against playoff teams. They only played 3 playoff teams, the Patriots and the winners off the two weakest division (Texans, Redskins). The Bills only win over a playoff team was the Texans. The AFC East had the easiest schedules in the AFC and could still only qualify one team.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Wow. Ok.

My only point was that he needs DB's to effectively run is scheme and he hasn't had that the past 2 years. If they continuously pass rush with no secondary, the results are the same and then he's then crucified for not dropping back into coverage.

They had 54 sacks last year and lead the league. They had 21 and finished 31st this year...

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by jms62

They had 54 sacks last year and lead the league. They had 21 and finished 31st this year...

And they also had Stephon Gilmore and Corey Graham last year to augment Mckelvin at CB allowing their position players (ie. Williams, Dareus) to do what they do... They had neither this year and that compromised the system.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

And they also had Stephon Gilmore and Corey Graham last year to augment Mckelvin at CB allowing their position players (ie. Williams, Dareus) to do what they do... They had neither this year and that compromised the system.

He inherited a Ferrari defense and proceeded to use it to pull a tractor through a cornfield. He is able to sell stupid people with his bravado cause they want to believe all the good things he is selling them. Ki d of like a sleazy used car salesman.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

And they also had Stephon Gilmore and Corey Graham last year to augment Mckelvin at CB allowing their position players (ie. Williams, Dareus) to do what they do... They had neither this year and that compromised the system.

Should a coach make a system based on the players he has, or should he make the players try to fit his system?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Should a coach make a system based on the players he has, or should he make the players try to fit his system?

Should a coach be responsible for accepting a job knowing the players he has to work with will fit his system, and then get blindsided when the most basic element of said system is stripped away before he even shows up?

They knew what they were getting when they hired him, they knew his system.

Rex's system is completely reliant on shut down corners. You lose that, it flounders - just it did in the last year with the Jets, just like it does with missing pieces of any other defensive scheme.

If you want to blame someone, look to the GM and VP of Player Personnel for the decisions they made knowing what the backbone of his system is, or more disturbingly, were too ignorant to realize the impact of what they were doing.



Either way it falls on them, not the coach.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Should a coach be responsible for accepting a job knowing the players he has to work with will fit his system, and then get blindsided when the most basic element of said system is stripped away before he even shows up?

They knew what they were getting when they hired him, they knew his system.

Rex's system is completely reliant on shut down corners. You lose that, it flounders - just it did in the last year with the Jets, just like it does with missing pieces of any other defensive scheme.

If you want to blame someone, look to the GM and VP of Player Personnel for the decisions they made knowing what the backbone of his system is, or more disturbingly, were too ignorant to realize the impact of what they were doing.



Either way it falls on them, not the coach.

Well, this is why I asked. I mean, what comes first? I would think a good gm would know what he has, and hire a coach accordingly. Yes, it would be nuts to hire a coach if you know what he runs...and then get rid of the keys that he needs to build on.
It's why I didn't get Kelly picking up Murray, if he knew how Murray played and whether he would fit. Did he think he could make Murray fit, and if he didn't, it was Murray's fault?
It's really interesting and fascinating to see sometimes...these guys are supposed to be wizards at this game....and then you wonder wth??

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by jms62

He inherited a Ferrari defense and proceeded to use it to pull a tractor through a cornfield. He is able to sell stupid people with his bravado cause they want to believe all the good things he is selling them. Ki d of like a sleazy used car salesman.

This is 100% right and anyone who doesn't see this hasn't paid enough attention to Rex's time as a head coach.

[Danzig]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14...d-coaching-job

this has to be a joke. that gm couldn't deal with harbaugh, wtf does he think it would be like with kelly??