Champs Elysees....

[-BT-]

anyone see Ramon give that 2-5 shot an awful ride in a field of 4

that one really hurt

-bt-

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by -BT-

anyone see Ramon give that 2-5 shot an awful ride in a field of 4

that one really hurt

-bt-

Ramon stinks I have no clue why Frankel loves him

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Ramon gave him a no doubt about it perfect trip - he just lost to a better ... errrr more juiced up horse.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Ramon gave him a no doubt about it perfect trip - he just lost to a better ... errrr more juiced up horse.

I don't no what was worse the Ramon 30 lengths off the pace in his last or the bust my nut to soon try today.. HE SUX

[tiggerv]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Ramon gave him a no doubt about it perfect trip - he just lost to a better ... errrr more juiced up horse.

That was my thought too

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I don't no what was worse the Ramon 30 lengths off the pace in his last or the bust my nut to soon try today.. HE SUX

Freddy - not only was the horse in a perfect tactical position - but it was hardly an over aggressive ride.

Whenever an overwhelming favorite goes down, people look to blame the jockey first .. and sometimes they still do despite the fact he had his horse placed perfectly.

If you want to see what a horrible trip looks like - go back and watch On The Acorn's win in this race last year over dogs.

If any thread should be made about this race - it should be in regard to how the winner was hopelessly beaten by mediocre claimers in his last two races - without any excuse - and suddenly retransformed into his old self just like that.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

That was my thought too

why do you move a horse that early in a 4 horse field?

I assume Frankel put his 2nd horse in there for an honest pace? whats the need for Ramon to tackle the field on the 3rd turn? The field was coming back to him anyways..... Acorn wasn't exactly flying late both those horses were gasping for the line

I just don't see the need to make that move with only 3 horses in the race

oh well


-bt-

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If any thread should be made about this race - it should be in regard to how the winner was hopelessly beaten by mediocre claimers in his last two races - without any excuse - and suddenly retransformed into his old self just like that.

Very happy he won.

I'm not redboarding... didn't play the race but the first time I ever went to the track was the 2004 Hollywood Derby. He was there, followed him ever since (... and even through the dark days when he wasn't exactly a win machine).

Good for him.

[ArlJim78]

i had a feeling he wouldn't get the job done. it was a riders race, a tactical race, and he had the best horse. who else is there to blame?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Mike Mitchell

[pick4]

Champ Elysees was suppose to be lengths better than this field. Perfect setup for the horse and the horse hung like a chandelier.

[SOREHOOF]

They're animals. They don't always do what they are supposed to do. Same goes for the jockeys. Never back a 2-5 shot in a short field. Ramon is one of the better turf jockeys in the country. I guess he thought he had enough horse to move whenever he wanted.

[RolloTomasi]

I didn't see the race, but in previous races it didn't look like Champs Elysees was a horse particularly suited to 12f. I wonder if today's performance goes along with that. Its actually pretty curious how Frankel has managed some of the Juddmonte horses in recent months.

Ventura, for instance, wows them on turf at Santa Anita, then shows up on poly at Keeneland (which she duly wins). Instead of exploring more synthetic options, he puts her back on turf on Derby day on a less-than-firm course with a dubious pace scenario. Thousand Words, hopeless in his first synthetic start at Santa Anita, lights them up when placed back on turf, looking like a future stakes horse. Instead of keeping him in CA and pointing to the thus far, weak lineup pointing to the Shoemaker Mile (Ever A Friend being the heavy), he flounders twice going 7f on poly and dirt in KY. Storm Military was another poly guinea pig.

Champs Elysees himself was briefly mentioned for the one mile Shoemaker (a hint at Frankel's own distance concerns), when in reality, based on his good Big Cap effort, you'd anticipate he'd be eyeing the Hollywood Gold Cup. Personally, I think he showed up for today's race because it seemed like a gimme based on the other horses that entered.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by pick4

Champ Elysees was suppose to be lengths better than this field. Perfect setup for the horse and the horse hung like a chandelier.

A top turf race is almost always, at the very least, going to be competitive.

On a different note, what the hell has happened to Shamdinan? How does a horse go from BC Turf runner up to a badly beaten fifth in an allowance race, at 6 to 1 no less, in only three races over 6 months?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

He was a distant 2nd over a bog in the BC Turf that he and the winner probably only handled - but yeah, he stinks bad these days.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was a distant 2nd over a bog in the BC Turf that he and the winner probably only handled - but yeah, he stinks bad these days.

He didn't handle a bog at all in the Irish Derby. I was there, great country.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was a distant 2nd over a bog in the BC Turf that he and the winner probably only handled - but yeah, he stinks bad these days.

Wasn't the Secretariat on off turf? He needs to go back to Europe (where he's probably only Group 3 calibur). He basically won the Secretariat on the French connections' training anyways.

Just because Doug O'Neill has started wearing Scottish driving caps and fedoras to the paddock doesn't make him some old school trainer of turf horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Wasn't the Secretariat on off turf? He needs to go back to Europe (where he's probably only Group 3 calibur). He basically won the Secretariat on the French connections' training anyways.

Just because Doug O'Neill has started wearing Scottish driving caps and fedoras to the paddock doesn't make him some old school trainer of turf horses.

I believe that there was a clause when he was purchased that he couldn't race in France ( if not Europe ).

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Freddy - not only was the horse in a perfect tactical position - but it was hardly an over aggressive ride.

Whenever an overwhelming favorite goes down, people look to blame the jockey first .. and sometimes they still do despite the fact he had his horse placed perfectly.

If you want to see what a horrible trip looks like - go back and watch On The Acorn's win in this race last year over dogs.

If any thread should be made about this race - it should be in regard to how the winner was hopelessly beaten by mediocre claimers in his last two races - without any excuse - and suddenly retransformed into his old self just like that.

3rd and the 4th at HWD today were both won by juicer trainers,and both looked like huge jumps in performance( for sure the 3rd race.) Mitchell has had a tough start to the meet,and I just think he had enough of the losing.What had he had? 2 wins,and 9 2nds? I really think enough was enough. Time to win some races.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I believe that there was a clause when he was purchased that he couldn't race in France ( if not Europe ).

Well I hope they got most (if not all) of the purchase price back with the win at Arlington and the second in the BC. Kind of an odd clause, wonder if its typical of all the Aga Khan castoffs (save for the one's Godolphin buys).