NBA At the Half - Page 2

Mortimer · #21 01-31-2008, 09:24 AM

As you know...I said...effectively.

As you know...Sasha held out and did not play until the second or third game.

As you know he could not hit the proverbial broadside of a barn. 30% fg shooting would have been a welcome sight.

As you know....the Brazilian held out well into the season and took several games to get into basketball shape.

I think that also played into the "without James" record.

I just don't like it when people try to paint James as playing with absolutely no support.

He has a strong group with him....not the best team, but among the best. He doesn't do this all by himself. It's ridiculous for anyone to try and insinuate as much.

Mortimer · #22 01-31-2008, 09:50 AM

I believe you're also the guy who claims Here'sJhonny is a fine ss.

horseofcourse · #23 01-31-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I believe you're also the guy who claims Here'sJhonny is a fine ss.

Peralta was their best player in postseason last year. He is a good shortstop without question. He isn't Tulowitzski with the glove, but he is in the upper half of major league SS defensively, and he hits just fine. Good player who still has upside I believe. (who was the cog to get them to the 3-1 ALCS lead?? game 2,,game 4 anyone??) I wouldn't mind seeing him at 3rd base eventually however. He's still a decent SS though.

The facts are what they are regarding the Cavs. I don't need to say effectively. Varejao came to play in shape period. If Sasha wasn't in shape that's not LeBron's fault. LeBron has 3 big guys that rebound the heck out of the ball (Gooden, Z and Varejao). That is what he has. He has 3 brick laying off guards, (Hughes, Pavlovic and Brown...all 3 under 40 percent.), and two three point shooting point guards who are shooting guards in point guard bodies (Gibson and Jones.).

They are better with Pavlovic and Varejao healthy without question. They nonetheless win consistently without either those two with James on the floor. They never won without James on the floor (this year...in past years they have actually had very good records without James).

The are strong at power forward and center with the Gooden, Ilgauskas, Varejao rotation. Their guard play is very far from strong and in fact has been abysmal this year. Gibson is an interesting player who is a very good shooter but not really a point guard. He is about the only guy LeBron trusts to go to...him and Z. Like it or not, LeBron is the team and the best player in the game.

Mortimer · #24 01-31-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Peralta was their best player in postseason last year. He is a good shortstop without question. He isn't Tulowitzski with the glove, but he is in the upper half of major league SS defensively, and he hits just fine. Good player who still has upside I believe. (who was the cog to get them to the 3-1 ALCS lead?? game 2,,game 4 anyone??) I wouldn't mind seeing him at 3rd base eventually however. He's still a decent SS though.

The facts are what they are regarding the Cavs. I don't need to say effectively. Varejao came to play in shape period. If Sasha wasn't in shape that's not LeBron's fault. LeBron has 3 big guys that rebound the heck out of the ball (Gooden, Z and Varejao). That is what he has. He has 3 brick laying off guards, (Hughes, Pavlovic and Brown...all 3 under 40 percent.), and two three point shooting point guards who are shooting guards in point guard bodies (Gibson and Jones.).

They are better with Pavlovic and Varejao healthy without question. They nonetheless win consistently without either those two with James on the floor. They never won without James on the floor (this year...in past years they have actually had very good records without James).

The are strong at power forward and center with the Gooden, Ilgauskas, Varejao rotation. Their guard play is very far from strong and in fact has been abysmal this year. Gibson is an interesting player who is a very good shooter but not really a point guard. He is about the only guy LeBron trusts to go to...him and Z. Like it or not, LeBron is the team and the best player in the game.

Do you practice being wrong?

Sahsa and the Brazilian missed the entire preseason.That's all needing said.

James is the best player by far. Gibson is a very viable Downtown Freddie off the bench; many teams would like him. MANY teams would like a 3 big man rotation of Z,Gooden and the Brazilian....MANY.

Their real weakness is point guard. If Hughes wanted to....he could fill that void, but he doesn't want to.

Take Wade off and put James on Miami. They would be better ,but still a sub .500 team. People ought to start giving some credit to the overall strong supporting cast James has instead of how he does it all by himself.

James has yet a lot to learn.

Anyone who has seen Here'sJhonny for more than 10 games knows the guy is at the very best a very average ss.....who strikes out a ton.......and has one of the worst "balls he should have gotten to" averages in baseball. The Indians are still trying to solve second since they threw away one of the best there is . Now they will solve it by playing the next Omar Vizquel at..... 2nd.....and go mediocre at ss.

Briilliant.

horseofcourse · #25 01-31-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Do you practice being wrong?

Sahsa and the Brazilian missed the entire preseason.That's all needing said.

James is the best player by far. Gibson is a very viable Downtown Freddie off the bench; many teams would like him. MANY teams would like a 3 big man rotation of Z,Gooden and the Brazilian....MANY.

Their real weakness is point guard. If Hughes wanted to....he could fill that void, but he doesn't want to.

Take Wade off and put James on Miami. They would be better ,but still a sub .500 team. People ought to start giving some credit to the overall strong supporting cast James has instead of how he does it all by himself.

James has yet a lot to learn.

Anyone who has seen Here'sJhonny for more than 10 games knows the guy is at the very best a very average ss.....who strikes out a ton.......and has one of the worst "balls he should have gotten to" averages in baseball. The Indians are still trying to solve second since they threw away one of the best there is . Now they will solve it by playing the next Omar Vizquel at..... 2nd.....and go mediocre at ss.

Briilliant.

Do I practice being wrong?? You basically repeated everything I said...I said their big man rotation was very good...you repeated what I said. I said their guards stink...you repeated what I said. And you are quite simply wrong about Peralta. HE's a very good player. He strikes out a ton like pretty much everyone in baseball does now. It's not 1965 any more. If you don't like a young shortstop who is going to hit .280...hit 25-30 home runs every year, score and drive in 90 runs a year most likely and play decent to above average defense...don't know what you have there against him. I agree about Cabrera at short...I would like to see Barfield at 2nd and Peralta at 3rd and Blake in a super sub role, but I don't know if Barfield can ever get on base enough to justify playing him there full time. That's the problem...not Peralta.

Mortimer · #26 01-31-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Do I practice being wrong?? You basically repeated everything I said...I said their big man rotation was very good...you repeated what I said. I said their guards stink...you repeated what I said. And you are quite simply wrong about Peralta. HE's a very good player. He strikes out a ton like pretty much everyone in baseball does now. It's not 1965 any more. If you don't like a young shortstop who is going to hit .280...hit 25-30 home runs every year, score and drive in 90 runs a year most likely and play decent to above average defense...don't know what you have there against him. I agree about Cabrera at short...I would like to see Barfield at 2nd and Peralta at 3rd and Blake in a super sub role, but I don't know if Barfield can ever get on base enough to justify playing him there full time. That's the problem...not Peralta.

Well then you must absolutely agree James is far from doing it alone and that every team would benefit from him...but many would still not be able to break .500.....??

Here'sJohnny has never done any of those things!!...except he did hit .294....3 years ago. ....250's and .270 since!

DEFENSE still wins...you can't have a hack like him at short and a gold glove ss candiate like Cabrerra at 2nd. People have said regarding Peralta at third..............you don't want to know.

5 tools.....Peralta does NONE of them extremely well. He only is good in the power game and has a good arm....he's unGodly slow...doesn't hit for average( check his career avg.)..and in my opinion, and most who know what they are speaking of ,he is a near hack in the most important spot in fair territory.

Give me a break here already!

Mortimer · #27 01-31-2008, 02:16 PM

And no he doesn't strikeout just like anyone else.

He leads the league fer gosh sakes!

horseofcourse · #28 01-31-2008, 03:35 PM

I am of the opinion at 25 years old, Peralta has not reached his ceiling. HE is not that bad defensively. Certainly not a hack by a long shot. He did not lead the league in Ks. HE didn't even strike out as much as their leadoff hitter did last year!! He has averaged over 20 home runs the last 3 years. I honestly think he is going to become a 25 to 30 home run guy very shortly. He's fairly patient at the plate drawing 60 plus walks a year. I think his average and OBP will improve as well. Plus, I like the fact that he showed up in postseason last year unlike many others on the team (Hafner!).

You can manipulate any stat in the game as much as you want...but the fact remains, his assist total, (what other stat is more reliable than that??) says he gets to plenty of balls...more than most shorstops. Defense is important, they won the most games in baseball last year with him at shortstop. His defense is not why they didn't get to the World Series.

You're awesome...you turned a mid season NBA report thread into a Jhonny Peralta thread!! There are few talented enough to do that!!

Mortimer · #29 01-31-2008, 05:56 PM

Don't even talk about the guy who should be in leftfield. Peralta was last years leader in strileouts and he was right up the near the top for '07.

He's a guy I would ship out; hopefully they will do that before the season starts. I don't need statistics and neither does anyone else has who seen him play except you!

ACCH!!

Look...I'll settle for this. Just don't make James sound like he does it alone...

....OK?

King Glorious · #30 01-31-2008, 10:55 PM

I can't believe I read it on here that James has an excellent supporting cast. I don't know if the rest of those guys could win the Big-10.

#31 01-31-2008, 11:03 PM

Hughes may be one of the biggest mistakes
in the NBA in the last 10 years. That much
money and the guy is worthless. Needs an
audition for AND ONE.

Cleveland needs a point guard
more than anything.

Gooden looks Omish, Amish, with that neck
beard. I believe this is an in-depth
evaluation of Gooden.

Mortimer · #32 02-01-2008, 07:56 AM

Someone has read "excellent" into overall supporting cast where I read "strong".

Or was it only a one man team that knocked Detroit out of the playoffs last year?

horseofcourse · #33 02-01-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I can't believe I read it on here that James has an excellent supporting cast. I don't know if the rest of those guys could win the Big-10.

C'mon those guys were only down by 20 at the half to a 9-35 team last night!!

Mortimer · #34 02-01-2008, 08:41 AM

They lost by 6...without 3 key players.

Not one......3.

And the 9-35 team had just defeated the Spurs.....who I guess couldn't win the BT either.

horseofcourse · #35 02-01-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortimer

They lost by 6...without 3 key players.

Not one......3.

And the 9-35 team had just defeated the Spurs.....who I guess couldn't win the BT either.

Yet, some how, some way they are able to win the night before and the game before that without TWO of those key players. It seems to for some reason be that 3rd key player that makes all the difference. (hopefully Pavlovic isn't out too long!!) (and Grady Sizemore had more strikeouts than Peralta last year too...actually the last 3 years he has!).

Mortimer · #36 02-01-2008, 09:35 AM

You are wrong. Peralta was the league leader 2 years ago...but point well taken about the overrated Sizemore.

By the way......how did they beat the Spurs then with just Parker out?

You admit you do agree the supporting cast is a fine one...yet you insist on trying to imply it's a one man team. It just ain't gonna work.You'll have yourself twisted into a pretzel with that frustrated approach of yours.

horseofcourse · #37 02-01-2008, 09:53 AM

Strikeouts

2007...Sizemore 155, Peralta 146
2006...Sizemore 153, Peralta 152
2005...Sizemore 132, Peralta 128

I am good at math an I am quite certain it is impossible Peralta ever led the league in strikeouts at any point in time with someone on his own team surapssing him. Sizemore is far from overrated. Despite his strikeouts he is always on base, and can play defense despite a poor arm. A .390 OBP from your leadoff hitter is quite doable I must say. I'll take 174 hits and 101 walks from him each and every year.

With everyone healthy it is an average supporting cast. The 3 man Gooden, Varejao, Ilgauskas frontline rotation is quite good. The guard play is poor. A point guard doesn't exist which is why LeBron has to play that position for the most part. Put it all together it is at best average.

horseofcourse · #38 02-01-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortimer

You are wrong. Peralta was the league leader 2 years ago...but point well taken about the overrated Sizemore.

By the way......how did they beat the Spurs then with just Parker out?

You admit you do agree the supporting cast is a fine one...yet you insist on trying to imply it's a one man team. It just ain't gonna work.You'll have yourself twisted into a pretzel with that frustrated approach of yours.

That would be Curtis Granderson who was the league leader 2 years ago. Easy to mistake him with Jhonny Peralta considering the similar spellings of their names I guess.

Mortimer · #39 02-01-2008, 10:19 AM

I am going to check your work as I believe you are wrong on the strikeouts.

But you certainly have proven Here'sJhonny is a fine contact man.Also thought the 'Sizemore is a excellent defensive player despite the poor arm' (

) was to die for.

When Sasha is in shape the defense a 6-7 shooting guard gives along with a 44% fg average ...a lot of teams would like that,too.Name the teams who have a better 3 big man rotation.

How does an average supporting cast knock out the Pistons?

You have LeBron Leblindness.......don't worry...most people do.

horseofcourse · #40 02-01-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I am going to check your work as I believe you are wrong on the strikeouts.

But you certainly have proven Here'sJhonny is a fine contact man.Also thought the 'Sizemore is a excellent defensive player despite the poor arm' (

) was to die for.

When Sasha is in shape the defense a 6-7 shooting guard gives along with a 44% fg average ...a lot of teams would like that,too.Name the teams who have a better 3 big man rotation.

How does an average supporting cast knock out the Pistons?

You have LeBron Leblindness.......don't worry...most people do.

Well, the average supporting cast could knock out the Pistons because they have LeBron James on their team....that one is quite simple. It's simple...the "championship" teams usually have multiple go to guys...(Parker, Duncan, Ginobili) (Wade, Shaq) (billups, Wallace, Hamilton, Prince) (Kobe, Shaq). Even Jordan had Pippen and rodman and Kukoc etc. I don't think anyone on the Cavs team is that caliber of player. They're not terrible, they're just average. Regarding the 3 big rotation, I think if you have one or two that are far superior players perhaps that outweighs the 3...ie San Antonio, Orlando are two to look at...the Lakers with Bynum and Odom as well...the Suns with Stoudamire and Marion. Perhaps Utah with Boozer, Kirelenko, Okur. The 3 do well for cleveland, but many teams have many things at those spots.

Sizemore has won a gold glove. Perhaps undeservedly, but he can go get fly balls.