Knicks Get Melo: Did they give up too much?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'd still take LeBron. Probably Durant next just because no one else his age comes close to the type of player he is.

Durant = Rachel Alexandra
LeBron = Perfect Drift

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You miss the point again. They are not going to be in position to get Paul because they wont have enough money or talent to get him. Obviously the bar has been set and now ALL the top players will want a sign and trade. The Knicks jut dont have the cap space, especially if the cap shrinks in the new agreement, nor do they have anything tangible to pull off a deal for Paul.

The Knicks as currently constructed are not anything more than a 1 round and out team. This fantasy that they will be able to find a good role players for nothing is just that, fantasy.

Plus with al the commotion about player movement the owners may hold out for an NFL style "franchise" tag which will make the Knicks plight even tougher.

Billups is a 35 year old PG who can't guard anyone.

Who do the knicks guard anyway? Like I said i dont believe in the coach. Billups expires at 15 mil so why wouldnt they have the room to get Paul with Billups up?

I'll clarify the Durant comparison...

He's already having knee trouble. It's not like he's carrying any weight right now. Don't see Oklahoma City winning and he's the type to re-sign with them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Who do the knicks guard anyway? Like I said i dont believe in the coach. Billups expires at 15 mil so why wouldnt they have the room to get Paul with Billups up?

So the new coach is going to bring a defensive mindset to team that features Amare and Carmelo? LOL yeah that would be a winner. They are expected to resign Billups and his contract will expire after the new agreement is signed with a lower or harder cap. Do you seriously think NO will let Paul walk? You seriously think Paul wont want max money? You realize that they need 7-8 players to play right? Paul isn't exactly healthy

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I'll clarify the Durant comparison...

He's already having knee trouble. It's not like he's carrying any weight right now. Don't see Oklahoma City winning and he's the type to re-sign with them.

He is already signed long term.

If they could pry Howard out of Orlando they would be a scary team. Have no bad contracts, strong role players, young team, top scorer, very good point guard, good defensively. With a defensive force like Howard with his new found post game they would be very tough to handle. But Howards ego is probably too big for Ok City. He would be perfect for Chicago if they can dump Boozer.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

If you had to pick any player in the league to be on your team right now who would it be?


I'd pick Rose. I think he's going to be the most accomplished player in the league once Kobe and Duncan retire. If he were 6'6" with the same athleticism he would be by far the best player right now.

I'd take Lebron hands down and then I would probably take Dwight Howard.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is already signed long term.

If they could pry Howard out of Orlando they would be a scary team. Have no bad contracts, strong role players, young team, top scorer, very good point guard, good defensively. With a defensive force like Howard with his new found post game they would be very tough to handle. But Howards ego is probably too big for Ok City. He would be perfect for Chicago if they can dump Boozer.

They are a low post scorer away from being a contender in the west. They could probably use another shooter as well but that isn't nearly as important as a low post threat.

I watched Chicago play the other night against the spurs when Rose went off for 40. I didn't see any holes on that team except maybe a perimeter player besides Rose that can get his shot in a halfcourt set. That team is young, athletic and deep. They are double figure odds right now to win it all. I don't see a compelling reason why they can't.

Dwight Howard is garbage. You can have that soft b.itch.

LeBron is clinically insane and chokes when it matters. You can have him too.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They are a low post scorer away from being a contender in the west. They could probably use another shooter as well but that isn't nearly as important as a low post threat.

I watched Chicago play the other night against the spurs when Rose went off for 40. I didn't see any holes on that team except maybe a perimeter player besides Rose that can get his shot in a halfcourt set. That team is young, athletic and deep. They are double figure odds right now to win it all. I don't see a compelling reason why they can't.

I dont know they need more shooting. They have under utilized Cook off the bench but he is more of a playoff type asset and he can only shoot. They have a problem with LA because they dont have enough size to counter both of the Lakers big men.

[Cannon Shell]

John Hollinger
New York: D+

You can't evaluate this as you would a normal trade. This deal was made at gunpoint, and that colors the entire assessment.

Anthony became the first player in memory to issue a trade demand and then list one team that he'd accept a trade to. And then somehow, the Knicks decided to start bidding against themselves and repeatedly agreed to up the ante in the final hours.

New York could have had Anthony this summer while losing only Chandler (a restricted free agent they would have had to renounce). Their primary risk to that outcome was a "franchise tag" in the new collective bargaining agreement that would have allowed Denver to keep Anthony. But even then plenty of alternatives were available for the Knicks, as three better players -- Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard -- all seemed anxious to get to the Big Apple via power plays of their own, and one of the three (or another marquee star) may have wriggled free regardless of what new restrictions the next CBA imposes.

This isn't Indiana or Memphis, and this saga laid that reality bare. Even with a franchise tag rule, New York had so many advantages that it was only a matter of time before a second star showed up, especially given the salary cap space the Knicks had carved out.

To get a player like Anthony in those circumstances, it was worth paying something above just Chandler to convert a likely outcome to a certainty.

But in this case the premium New York paid was as follows, beyond Chandler:

• Gallinari
• Mozgov
• Their 2014 first-round draft pick
• Golden State's second-round picks in 2012 and 2013 (owned by the Knicks)
• $6 million in cash ($3 million each to Minnesota and Denver)
• Swallowing two dead-money years at the end of Balkman's contract
• Trading Anthony Randolph for Corey Brewer
• Trading Felton for Billups, making New York eight years older at the point guard spot with a player who makes nearly twice in salary next season. Remind me again why they needed to commit to all eight of these additional considerations for a player they were likely to get anyway?

The worst part, of course, is that this deal proves that no matter how many advantages New York gains from its magnetic appeal to potential free agents, owner James Dolan will screw them up. Leaning on the genius of Isiah Thomas -- because it worked out so well for the first time -- he fell hook, line and sinker for every bluff thrown his way by the Nuggets and Melo's people. (Yes, Melo's people participated -- Anthony needed to make sure he got a lucrative contract extension under the current salary rules before being traded.)

New York still gets its Melo-Stoudemire nucleus, but now lacks the supporting pieces to do anything important with that core. And by extending Melo now, they agree to lock him up at such an expensive price that, in concert with Stoudemire's deal, it likely precludes making a run at Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in 2012.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

John Hollinger
New York: D+

You can't evaluate this as you would a normal trade. This deal was made at gunpoint, and that colors the entire assessment.

Anthony became the first player in memory to issue a trade demand and then list one team that he'd accept a trade to. And then somehow, the Knicks decided to start bidding against themselves and repeatedly agreed to up the ante in the final hours.

New York could have had Anthony this summer while losing only Chandler (a restricted free agent they would have had to renounce). Their primary risk to that outcome was a "franchise tag" in the new collective bargaining agreement that would have allowed Denver to keep Anthony. But even then plenty of alternatives were available for the Knicks, as three better players -- Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard -- all seemed anxious to get to the Big Apple via power plays of their own, and one of the three (or another marquee star) may have wriggled free regardless of what new restrictions the next CBA imposes.

This isn't Indiana or Memphis, and this saga laid that reality bare. Even with a franchise tag rule, New York had so many advantages that it was only a matter of time before a second star showed up, especially given the salary cap space the Knicks had carved out.

To get a player like Anthony in those circumstances, it was worth paying something above just Chandler to convert a likely outcome to a certainty.

But in this case the premium New York paid was as follows, beyond Chandler:

• Gallinari
• Mozgov
• Their 2014 first-round draft pick
• Golden State's second-round picks in 2012 and 2013 (owned by the Knicks)
• $6 million in cash ($3 million each to Minnesota and Denver)
• Swallowing two dead-money years at the end of Balkman's contract
• Trading Anthony Randolph for Corey Brewer
• Trading Felton for Billups, making New York eight years older at the point guard spot with a player who makes nearly twice in salary next season. Remind me again why they needed to commit to all eight of these additional considerations for a player they were likely to get anyway?

The worst part, of course, is that this deal proves that no matter how many advantages New York gains from its magnetic appeal to potential free agents, owner James Dolan will screw them up. Leaning on the genius of Isiah Thomas -- because it worked out so well for the first time -- he fell hook, line and sinker for every bluff thrown his way by the Nuggets and Melo's people. (Yes, Melo's people participated -- Anthony needed to make sure he got a lucrative contract extension under the current salary rules before being traded.)

New York still gets its Melo-Stoudemire nucleus, but now lacks the supporting pieces to do anything important with that core. And by extending Melo now, they agree to lock him up at such an expensive price that, in concert with Stoudemire's deal, it likely precludes making a run at Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in 2012.

Rubbish complete and utter trash. Billups is a terriffic player and in season and a half his contract becomes a positive not a negative, so for that matter does balkmans. There is nothing to buy next year in the free agent market and the draft looks horrendous

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Rubbish complete and utter trash. Billups is a terriffic player and in season and a half his contract becomes a positive not a negative, so for that matter does balkmans. There is nothing to buy next year in the free agent market and the draft looks horrendous

Billups is getting torched tonight by bums. He is a fading player. Balkman's contract is just wasted space. Face it they gave up way too much. The idea that Anthony was going elsewhere was a complete fabrication.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There was no shot of him signing with the Nets. This isnt baseball where a team like the Yankees can just blow everyone out of the water. The deal he would have signed as a FA is going to be the same regardless of where he went. HE wanted to be traded because he makes more money resigning as a member of a team than as a unrestricted FA. DENVER wanted to trade him because they did not want to wind up like Cleveland. But seriously do you think the Nets would have made a deal for him if they had no guarantee that he would resign with them? The Russian simply played his hand as well as possible by bluffing the crosstown rivals into giving up too much.

I am a Knick fan. I will root for him. But the fact is that he was coming to NY regardless and he could have come to a team that is a lot better than the team he will play on.

Exactly. The Nets owner played the Knicks like a fiddle. I don't like the trade for the Knicks at all. As you said, he would have come in the summer anyway and they would have kept all of the players. There was no need for them to give up all that they did. Last I checked, Anthony still doesn't play defense. Pairing him with another matador defender like Stoudamire is asking for trouble. Anthony is strictly box office in NY. He'll provide some offense but offense wasn't their problem since they are second on the league in scoring anyway. I also don't think that Billups is that good of a fit in that style of play. They gave up a ton and didn't get enough back and what is it going to do for them this year? Nothing. They still aren't better than Boston, Miami, Chicago, or Orlando. This MAY put them past Atlanta. So they perhaps are in a position to win a playoff series. I think they would have been better off without getting Anthony and trying to lure Dwight Howard next year when he would have been in the final year of his own contract.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

If you had to pick any player in the league to be on your team right now who would it be?


I'd pick Rose. I think he's going to be the most accomplished player in the league once Kobe and Duncan retire. If he were 6'6" with the same athleticism he would be by far the best player right now.

There's only one answer. It's the same one every gm in the world would give. LBJ.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Billups is getting torched tonight by bums. He is a fading player. Balkman's contract is just wasted space. Face it they gave up way too much. The idea that Anthony was going elsewhere was a complete fabrication.

Why would you need Chandler when Anthony is on the court. Gallo is not exact Nowitski, nor will he ever be, losing Felton on the Cheap playing well sucked but they have 7 years of selling out the Gardern and in the playoff locked up with this deal. If they get over the hump is guess work. It will all come down to finding another diamond like Fields in the draft or billups leaving and them getting a point guard..how about Baron Davis he just got banished to Siberia

Originally Posted by King Glorious

There's only one answer. It's the same one every gm in the world would give. LBJ.

Yeah if you have zero imagination and absolutely no idea how to judge heart.

He's a great athlete and a horrible person. It's not going to happen. Anything less than 3 championships and his career is a failure. And in my eyes he'll be lucky to get one 'ship.

He's a b.itch and should never be compared to the greats.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why would you need Chandler when Anthony is on the court. Gallo is not exact Nowitski, nor will he ever be, losing Felton on the Cheap playing well sucked but they have 7 years of selling out the Gardern and in the playoff locked up with this deal. If they get over the hump is guess work. It will all come down to finding another diamond like Fields in the draft or billups leaving and them getting a point guard..how about Baron Davis he just got banished to Siberia

It isn't that they needed Chandler or Galinardi is an all star. It is that they gave up valuable pieces that worked cheap when they didn't have to. I am not a big Felton guy but he is a lot more palatable at 7 million playing 38 minutes a game than Billups at 14 million playing 32. Plus he is a tradable commodity at that salary while Billups is an anchor. Denver was desperate to get rid of Billups and while you might hear some bs about his playoff experience the fact is that the Nuggets had no leverage yet still got players, picks and dumped an unwanted salary.

The Knicks don't have issues selling seats even in tough times. The idea that another Landry will be unearthed by the Knick is very unlikely. In fact they actually took Andy Rautins before they took Fields.

So you want to add Baron Davis to this mix? Why not dust off World B Free and get Doug Moe out of retirement?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It isn't that they needed Chandler or Galinardi is an all star. It is that they gave up valuable pieces that worked cheap when they didn't have to. I am not a big Felton guy but he is a lot more palatable at 7 million playing 38 minutes a game than Billups at 14 million playing 32. Plus he is a tradable commodity at that salary while Billups is an anchor. Denver was desperate to get rid of Billups and while you might hear some bs about his playoff experience the fact is that the Nuggets had no leverage yet still got players, picks and dumped an unwanted salary.

The Knicks don't have issues selling seats even in tough times. The idea that another Landry will be unearthed by the Knick is very unlikely. In fact they actually took Andy Rautins before they took Fields.

So you want to add Baron Davis to this mix? Why not dust off World B Free and get Doug Moe out of retirement?

Knicks had immense trouble selling tix until this year.

Valueable chips to get who they just landed Melo how much better is ever available? the point is they used the chips to get a world class player with enormous star appeal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Knicks had immense trouble selling tix until this year.

Valueable chips to get who they just landed Melo how much better is ever available? the point is they used the chips to get a world class player with enormous star appeal.

The Knicks were judged to be the most valuable franchise in the NBA despite not having put a team on the floor in a decade prior to this year that wasn't a joke. Just because the seats are not filled doesn't mean they arent sold.

Melo is 6 time first round and out guy with better teams than the one he is on. He is good for 25-10 a game. But that is really all he is good for.

The point is they could have had it all and they hit the panic button.

Now they face an uncertain labor agreement that the entire melo drama has probably pushed into harsher standards for big market teams meaning they have to try to fill in the considerable holes on the roster with very little to work with.

Just look at the guys moved today. A lot of good players that fit roles and needs for a team like NY were traded for players like the ones the Knicks gave up. Who does NY have that they can move for anyone? They have 4 quality NBA players on the roster. Douglas is ok. What else is there?

[clyde]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

They had to get Melo at any costs. Getting a chance at a player of his ability in his prime is rare. They can bulid around him and Amare. They would have been no better then 500 team with those other guys. I think its a great deal for both sides.

That was a nice call on the Marshmellow trade,Nick.












No it wasn't!!!!