Anyone See the Risen Star?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, he was NOT " flying by everybody "...he picked up the dead mediocrities that tired from the pace and a couple other stragglers. The logical horses finished one-two-three and well in front of Circular Quay...but apparently they were not part of the " everybody " that Todd saw in the race. But, as if that statement wasn't a big enough falsehood, it was followed by the insipid " I wouldn't trade places with anybody ". Perhaps not in life, but he would trade Circular Quay even up for NoBiz and Street Sense most assuredly.

Look, Pletcher is right that it's a difficult trip to categorize, and it's impossible to know how he would have done had he gotten clear of trouble, but the fact remains that Circular Quay still has not proven an ability to run particularly well going both a route of ground and two turns. In fact, there is mounting evidence that he can't and that is what he now must disprove. No amount of " trainerspeak " can change that.

I guess Pletcher is just a big talker. He probably doesn't know what he is talking about when he watches a horse race.
Maybe you have more access to these horses than I do....but I don't think you have more access than Mr. Pletcher.

I have a question though....does finishing second in a two-turn race mean that you don't run well in routes?

You are right though, CQ was not flying by everybody, he was too busy checking and dodging fallen riders.........what a bum.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by deltaforce97

I guess Pletcher is just a big talker. He probably doesn't know what he is talking about when he watches a horse race.
Maybe you have more access to these horses than I do....but I don't think you have more access than Mr. Pletcher.

I have a question though....does finishing second in a two-turn race mean that you don't run well in routes?

You are right though, CQ was not flying by everybody, he was too busy checking and dodging fallen riders.........what a bum.

I love these kind of responses.

I wish you the best of luck.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love these kind of responses.

I wish you the best of luck.

Right back at you.

[ManilaRose]

I'm not sure what impact this race is actually going to have on the Derby. That being said, if I picked one horse from this race to possibly do something in the Derby it would be Zanjero. He hadn't ran since November and had some breaks in his training as well. I can't believe he was anywhere near 100% yesterday and I think that showed after he took the lead and had nothing left. I think he will take a big step forward off of yesterdays race, not so sure the others will. What are your opinions on this?

[The Bid]

Westwon will improve, hes essentially unraced since Keeneland.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by miles2135

CQ dragged johhny v up to the back of the pack....he was nowhere near letting him loose...If CQ had room and kicked like he did in EVERY other race he has been in then he would have won...this race is a TOTAL toss out...if you dont think so you need to have the race played on a 100 inch screen or something so you can see what happened. I would compare this AWFUL trip to 3 horses being taken out by Landseer in the 2002 BC Mile. I would also like to point out that after CQ dodged a bullet Johnny V did not go right to work on him.....he took caution and made sure that CQ was ok before he let him loose.

What is going on around here regarding CQ? Based on the reaction that I see on here it is a sure thing that he will be an underlay once again in his next start because of the fact that people are going to keep repeating that this race is a total throw-out. Well I am not going to choose to throw it out because while the incident clouded the final outcome a bit, I saw enough to realize that CQ is probably not going to be a star two turn horse.
And this is a horse that I have liked from the beginning but the emerging pattern in his performances hints strongly to me at least that he has limited upside going two turns against the best emerging three year olds.

You mention that if he had room and kicked like he did in every other race that he would have won. How can you say that? His kick has never got him to the winners circle going two turns, and it certainly wouldn't have yesterday. I have looked at the race several times and I can't see him better than perhaps in the place or show photo if you assume that the incident does not happen.

This is an example of a troubled trip that will be way overplayed in terms of its effect on the outcome.

With large fields and getting so slowly out of the gate, CQ will have problems in any race with large numbers of horses. The horse will find nothing but trouble with the gate issues and lack of speed. If he makes it to the Derby, he will most likely be swallowed by the masses.

Something has got to change early in races for him.

I agree that his two turn upside is probably limited but this is a G3 that we are talking about. I guess we will see in the LA Derby whether or not he is for real around turn turns. Ill give him one more race.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Yeah, this is really silly. The trips were discussed here very shortly after the Keeneland race, which I think you need to watch again, and I picked Street Sense publically and bet him and made a bit of money.

Sadly, I didn't hit the exacta, as while I felt Street Sense was close to ten lengths better than Circular Quay, I incorrectly ( and unfortunately ) thought others were less bad.

I had a nice bet on Street Sense and hit the trifecta. It wasn't all that much and felt like I should have hit the Super.

as a matter of fact I hit al of the dirt races on BC day. Didn't bother me that the rail seemed to be better than the rest of the track. Kinda strange how the best horses had the rail 90% of the time. Yet the rest of the inside didn't do anything. Well except for the sprint

didn't have that exacta

[AeWingnut]

Notional has the required 3 syllable name
puts him right up there as a Ky Derby contender

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Notional has the required 3 syllable name
puts him right up there as a Ky Derby contender

and the 'S' name is a bonus too.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

and the 'S' name is a bonus too.

sNotional

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

sNotional

I don't know why, but I thought you were talking about Street Sense (who doesn't have 3 syllables anyway... so I clearly wasn't paying attention)

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

ravel certainly has the pedigree to be a derby winner-if one won it on pedigree alone! have to admit notional looks as tho he came from the wrong side of the tracks after looking over ravels...

What tracks you talking about, fella? I

n Excess is one of the leading sires in California and ranks respectably in the national listings. He's sired a Santa Anita Derby winner who was third in the Kentucky Derby (Indian Charlie), which has himself sired a champion in Fleet Indian.

Damsire French Deputy was a royally-bred (by Deputy Minister from a G1 winner) winner of the Jerome, sire of champion older male Left Bank, several G1 winners in the US, a 12f turf G1 winner in Argentina, and Japan Dirt Cup winner Kurofune. The latter's exploits so impressed the Japanese that they bought him, so you haven't seen so many little FDs lately.

Second dam Love Bunny won her only race and was by Exclusive Native, sire of two Kentucky Derby winners - Affirmed and Genuine Risk. Third dam won the Alcibiades and placed in the Kentucky Oaks.

Just because you don't see Storm Cat or Mr. Prospector or Seattle Slew in the pedigree doesn't mean that it is of lower quality.

[ManilaRose]

Anyone know the Beyer figure of the Risen Star? Unless it isn't posted on DRF yet it wasn't a 94 or higher. Slow race either way in my opinion.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

What tracks you talking about, fella? I

n Excess is one of the leading sires in California and ranks respectably in the national listings. He's sired a Santa Anita Derby winner who was third in the Kentucky Derby (Indian Charlie), which has himself sired a champion in Fleet Indian.

Damsire French Deputy was a royally-bred (by Deputy Minister from a G1 winner) winner of the Jerome, sire of champion older male Left Bank, several G1 winners in the US, a 12f turf G1 winner in Argentina, and Japan Dirt Cup winner Kurofune. The latter's exploits so impressed the Japanese that they bought him, so you haven't seen so many little FDs lately.

Second dam Love Bunny won her only race and was by Exclusive Native, sire of two Kentucky Derby winners - Affirmed and Genuine Risk. Third dam won the Alcibiades and placed in the Kentucky Oaks.

Just because you don't see Storm Cat or Mr. Prospector or Seattle Slew in the pedigree doesn't mean that it is of lower quality.

i said after looking at ravels-the two don't compare. but thanks for assuming i'm only looking for those three sires you mentioned. funny thing tho, i don't recall storm cat in ravels!!

i recalled left bank immediately when i saw french deputy btw. he was a fave of mine..

Originally Posted by pgardn

With large fields and getting so slowly out of the gate, CQ will have problems in any race with large numbers of horses. The horse will find nothing but trouble with the gate issues and lack of speed. If he makes it to the Derby, he will most likely be swallowed by the masses.

Something has got to change early in races for him.

Yea just like his daddy was