When "Neighborhood Watch" Gets Out of Hand

This case in Florida is in the national spotlight:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ce?sc=fb&cc=fp

I think it's less a story about race than about the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida, which needs to be revisited. Sanford, FL PD and neighborhood watch programs also under the microscope as a result of this tragedy.


Ocala Mike

[Danzig]

no, it is a story about race and about a guy who has cop wannabe syndrome. his statements to the 911 operator show he's a racist. he sought a confrontation with the kid, he should be in jail awaiting trial.

i have been keeping up with the story, and am appalled that the guy who killed the teenage boy has not been arrested and charged. but i'm glad the feds are now involved.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

This case in Florida is in the national spotlight:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ce?sc=fb&cc=fp

I think it's less a story about race than about the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida, which needs to be revisited. Sanford, FL PD and neighborhood watch programs also under the microscope as a result of this tragedy.


Ocala Mike

I heard this story today. This guy needs to be charged and had no right to do what he did

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, it is a story about race and about a guy who has cop wannabe syndrome. his statements to the 911 operator show he's a racist. he sought a confrontation with the kid, he should be in jail awaiting trial.

i have been keeping up with the story, and am appalled that the guy who killed the teenage boy has not been arrested and charged. but i'm glad the feds are now involved.

....Claims self defense, what a crock...You see the pic of this guy?...Looks like Larry the cable guy....no offense to Larry...

[Danzig]

Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."

According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, which police were not aware of at the time of the incident.


http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-...-abc-news.html



how can he claim self-defense when he kept following the teen? he instigated the whole thing, he should be charged.

I don't know what happened. What I do know is that neighborhood watches aren't going anywhere. This story will probably be in the headlines for weeks. And Al and Jesse are preparing to pad their bank accounts and have their asses kissed.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Until you understand the full complexity (and insanity) of the "Stand your Ground" law in FL, you won't ever "get" why he wasn't or hasn't been arrested.

BTW, the media is doing a disservice by continuing along this "racial bias" mania.

It has to do with the portion of this arcane law which states the instance needs to be fully investigated prior to arrests being issued, if warranted.

On the opposite side of the scale, there was a case not too long ago here in a Tampa suburb where a black guy came out of his house to confront a white guy and his 5 year old child on a play ground - apparently the kids were skateboarding in the park and black guy didn't care for that too much (No Skateboarding" signs were posted) - the conversation escalated verbally, black guy goes back to his house, gets a gun, comes back, reengages in the argument and when white guy went to shove him back out of his personal space, black guy shot him dead, right in front of his kid.

black guy was never arrested until after a full investigation had been performed, which took months.


This particular instance is about an ******* with a gun, who apparently engaged this young kid, provoked a reaction, and then shot. The 911 tapes are pretty damning, including the portion where he tells the 911 operator that he is going after the kid.
This dick will be brought up on charges sooner than later.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I don't know what happened. What I do know is that neighborhood watches aren't going anywhere. This story will probably be in the headlines for weeks. And Al and Jesse are preparing to pad their bank accounts and have their asses kissed.

Je$$e will milk the tragedy for all it is worth.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I don't know what happened. What I do know is that neighborhood watches aren't going anywhere. This story will probably be in the headlines for weeks. And Al and Jesse are preparing to pad their bank accounts and have their asses kissed.

Shoot Al and Jesse and prosecute the bonehead for a senseless,tragic act!
Notice I didnt say murder them.....just shoot 'em in the butt

[Riot]

Today it has been released that the teen was on his cell phone with his girlfriend at the time the vigilante approached him.

Although the state law massively hinders any local prosecution (it enables murder, which is why it needs to be overturned), glad the feds are getting involved via hate crime law. I'd guess he's going to jail for life. That doesn't make up for the kid he killed, unfortunately.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

BTW, the media is doing a disservice by continuing along this "racial bias" mania.

Except when you listen to the entirety of the phone call (not just selected news excepts) the guy made to the police, it's clear he was only worried about the kid because he was black.

It's not the media worried about the kids color. It's the shooter. And it's outrageous.

This country still has a significant racism and inequality problem, it was revealed by the election of the first mixed-race president, and it's ugly and ever present in our political discourse right now concerning blacks, Hispanics, women, etc.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Riot

Except when you listen to the entirety of the phone call (not just selected news excepts) the guy made to the police, it's clear he was only worried about the kid because he was black.

It's not the media worried about the kids color. It's the shooter. And it's outrageous.

This country still has a significant racism and inequality problem, it was revealed by the election of the first mixed-race president, and it's ugly and ever present in our political discourse right now concerning blacks, Hispanics, women, etc.

As usual, the facts never get in the way of you trying to argue an indefensible point... Please reread the post. No one is arguing whether this jackass shot the kid because he was black, it's pretty clear (based on the 911 tapes) that race played a role in his state of mind and course of action at the time.
The uproar is over the fact that if the shoe was on the other foot, and a black man had shot a white kid, he would have been arrested on the spot - hence the racial bias. That (unfortunately) is not the way the law is written - until the crime is investigated, as evidenced by exactly the case I referenced.

He will be arrested, sentenced, and be spending a lovely time in prison with plenty of folks that scare the sh1t out of him because of their skin pigment.

And deservedly so. But in the interim, the media is doing a disservice by inciting racial discourse due to their ignorance of the law. That was the point I made, and thought I made it clear. I'll type more slowly for you next time.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

As usual, the facts never get in the way of you trying to argue an indefensible point...

Stop your ridiculousness. The story is all about race. It's not just another murder story.

And yes, even with the flaws in the law, I, as well and many others, think that if the shoe was on the other foot, you bet an arrest would have been made. The locals wouldn't have been so worried about being sued under the limitations of the law. The limitations of the law have been covered well in the "media" that you are accusing of ignoring it.

That's an opinion, not a "fact", so back off because someone dare disagree with you about quality of media coverage.

13 arrests in Florida under this law, and only 1 victim was armed.

Yes, the law makes local arrest difficult to impossible, thus making the feds have to step in, and they can only do that under the federal hate crime prosecution laws

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

On the opposite side of the scale, there was a case not too long ago here in a Tampa suburb where a black guy came out of his house to confront a white guy and his 5 year old child on a play ground - apparently the kids were skateboarding in the park and black guy didn't care for that too much (No Skateboarding" signs were posted) - the conversation escalated verbally, black guy goes back to his house, gets a gun, comes back, reengages in the argument and when white guy went to shove him back out of his personal space, black guy shot him dead, right in front of his kid.

black guy was never arrested until after a full investigation had been performed, which took months.

You might want to take five minutes and google before you post about a case that happened a few years ago, because memories get fuzzy.

I googled, as I'd not heard of this case before, and found out that the shooting happened Sept 26, 2010 and the shooter was arrested Sept 28, 2010. Two days between murder and arrest. Plea entered Oct 15, 2010.

While Zimmerman, three weeks later, still walks free.

[Danzig]

i know they are still saying the case is muddled because of the 'stand your ground' law-but i would have to think there's a huge difference between someone suddenly becoming stuck in a bad situation, and some dipshit deciding he's a charles bronson character and going far out of his way to have a confrontation.

[Riot]

It gets worse for the shooter now that he'll be before a grand jury for a federal hate crime.

Here's a good copy of the tape. Not only does the shooter mutter about assholes going free, he calls the boy a "fu.ck.ing coon". It is clear as day on this tape.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...racial-epithet

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know they are still saying the case is muddled because of the 'stand your ground' law-but i would have to think there's a huge difference between someone suddenly becoming stuck in a bad situation, and some dipshit deciding he's a charles bronson character and going far out of his way to have a confrontation.

It's a ridiculous law. Like Elvis was trying to point out, it's hard to prosecute under the way it's written. Hopefully this will get it overturned.

[GenuineRisk]

In addition, the Sanford Police Department is coming under scrutiny for not only not following proper procedures where Zimmerman is concerned, but for a history of racial issues:

<<In 2010, police waited seven weeks to arrest a lieutenant’s son who was caught on video sucker-punching a homeless black man.

In 2005, two security guards — one the son of a longtime Sanford police officer and the other a department volunteer — killed a black man they said was trying to run them over. Black leaders complained of a lackluster investigation. The guards ultimately were acquitted.>>

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...#storylink=cpy

It's come out that Trayvon was on the phone to a friend five minutes before he was shot, freaking out about the strange man following him. Of course, his cell phone has conveeeeeniently disappeared, though the friend's cell phone records confirm that he was on the phone with her right before the shooting.

The cops did not administer a drug or alcohol test on Zimmerman, which is standard procedure.

And of course there was the refusal to release the 911 tapes until public pressure got too great.

Originally Posted by Riot

It's a ridiculous law. Like Elvis was trying to point out, it's hard to prosecute under the way it's written. Hopefully this will get it overturned.

Ocala Mike

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's come out that Trayvon was on the phone to a friend five minutes before he was shot, freaking out about the strange man following him. Of course, his cell phone has conveeeeeniently disappeared, though the friend's cell phone records confirm that he was on the phone with her right before the shooting.

His father was calling his son's cell phone repeatedly when he didn't show back up home after halftime. The police never bothered to answer it, if they had it.

This is so sick, that this can happen in this day. Any hope this country was really mostly post-racial certainly has been disproven in a hundred different ways after the election of this president. It's a very thin veneer covering the hate.