Can someone help me here?????

[wac]

another horse goes down today on the T. I honestly don't remember a Sar meet with this many horses dying. I mean in 29 days i think 8 horses have been euthanized. What is going on? It is troubling to me that this is happening at such a historically great meet and it kills me when it does. Is the T to wet? to soft? I just want someone to make it make sense b/c it just doesn't. Not being a baby i know these things happen but damn man this is getting ridiculous. Any thoughts from anyone?

Caveat: i now see that the horse today had a heart attack. But still it seems to me that a lot of problems are happening. i get so excited for this meet every year and it just kills me inside when things happen that are happening. i was there Whitney weekend and was just floored. Just sad i guess.

[RolloTomasi]

Taking a cursory look at the database available to the public by the NYSGC, not accounting for surface, injury type, cause of death, or off meet incidents, the average number of fatalities over the past 10 years at Saratoga has been approximately 15 (with a range from 10 to 20).

That doesn't mean there isn't a unique factor(s) at this specific meet that have led to some of the problems (especially in the face of increased safety measures that have been implemented over the past few years).

Nevertheless, if the overall numbers this year don't actually represent an increase incidence of injury from other years, then perhaps a lot of people's sensitivity/distress is the result of coverage bias by the media.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Nevertheless, if the overall numbers this year don't actually represent an increase incidence of injury from other years, then perhaps a lot of people's sensitivity/distress is the result of coverage bias by the media.

This.

There are definitely members of the media (Dave Grening) taking pleasure in everything negative that has happened at Saratoga. On top of that gamblers are likely getting crushed (I know I am) so it’s non stop on Twitter, Facebook, message boards about how doom and gloom everything is.

[freddymo]

Does anyone know where to find the turf fatality information for tapeta racetracks?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Does anyone know where to find the turf fatality information for tapeta racetracks?

Equine Injury Database
https://jockeyclub.com/Default.asp?s...=10&story=1390

[Kasept]

I talk about the positives around the game 15 hours a week and can't write all my thoughts out, but beyond Rollo's reference to media coverage of injuries/fatalities, the negative miasma is directly tied to the Twitter (and other Social Media related) cesspool. Those that spend countless hours on it attacking every negative or challenging aspect of the industry want to pretend that the atmosphere of hopelessness they're fueling is the game's reality ~ and it isn't. My only recommendation is to not buy in to the false narrative of the people who can't enjoy or participate in the uniquely difficult endeavor which the sport presents at every level.

[wac]

thank you for the responses. I hope hope hope that Sat is clean. safe trip all.

[cakes44]

Well this ain’t good.

[casp0555]

sad, so very sad...

[wac]

I’m done for day. This is f’ing ridiculous. I can’t watch every race w heart in throat.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I talk about the positives around the game 15 hours a week and can't write all my thoughts out, but beyond Rollo's reference to media coverage of injuries/fatalities, the negative miasma is directly tied to the Twitter (and other Social Media related) cesspool. Those that spend countless hours on it attacking every negative or challenging aspect of the industry want to pretend that the atmosphere of hopelessness they're fueling is the game's reality ~ and it isn't. My only recommendation is to not buy in to the false narrative of the people who can't enjoy or participate in the uniquely difficult endeavor which the sport presents at every level.

Look, we just watched another two good horses snap legs today. The sealing of the track and unsealing stuff appears to have merit. This isn't Penn Nat with busted-up nickels that should have a new job or retired. It's unacceptable.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I talk about the positives around the game 15 hours a week and can't write all my thoughts out, but beyond Rollo's reference to media coverage of injuries/fatalities, the negative miasma is directly tied to the Twitter (and other Social Media related) cesspool. Those that spend countless hours on it attacking every negative or challenging aspect of the industry want to pretend that the atmosphere of hopelessness they're fueling is the game's reality ~ and it isn't. My only recommendation is to not buy in to the false narrative of the people who can't enjoy or participate in the uniquely difficult endeavor which the sport presents at every level.

So here are a few reasonable questions: They had to seal the track, and nobody is questioning Glenn's decision. Why did they run 9th on a sealed track only to open and harrow 20 minutes later for the 10th? Could they have brought the field back to the paddock, unsaddled the horses, and ran the race delayed? If so, is it something worth considering next time? Did TV play a role in that decision? We all love that Travers is in 4k and our friends are part of the broadcast., but the game is played outside, and weather delays always happen in sports.

Thank you for providing the data. Unless I am misreading it, tapeta has roughly 30% fewer fatalities.

[wac]

I would be interested in knowing what the per start/fatality is at Sar this year. With so many races off T I wonder how many starts there are as related to past. I’m sure someone can pull the numbers

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by wac

I would be interested in knowing what the per start/fatality is at Sar this year. With so many races off T I wonder how many starts there are as related to past. I’m sure someone can pull the numbers

337 races; 2,555 starters (12 fatalities; 5 turf/7 dirt)

8,700 times workouts (4 fatalities)

[cakes44]

Optics are terrible. It is what it is.

[57rick]

The casual fan doesn’t want to hear “ everything is being done” and “ the horses are treated like royalty” when they’ve tuned in 2 weeks in a row with a casualty near the finish line. I know I’m not going to convince anyone I know otherwise. Not that it’s any less tragic, but these breakdowns weren’t at a 2’nd race track with 8 or 9 year old horses running.
I feel everything is being done to prevent catastrophic breakdowns and casualties. Because of human nature, I’m sure not every trainer at Saratoga doesn’t try to get an edge.
I have no answers. Like some, I didn’t bet the rest of the card on Saturday or the card on Sunday. I needed time to process, mourn and express myself. I’m a gambler, not a horseman. A line I live by, from the New York movie Pope of Greenwich Village is “ Let’s stick to what we know here” ( making cheese is what I know&#128514. I know I enjoy handicapping immensely and putting my money on my opinions. I’ll be back at it on Thursday for Toga and Kentucky Downs. I don’t like Wednesdays card.
In closing, no one (yet!) in my small circle of friends has asked or suggested that I give up what I enjoy because of recent events. When it’s been brought up on the past, I’ve allowed anyone to speak their mind to me. I don’t have to defend what I do or the sport. My reply to anyone that has suggested the sport is inhumane or cruel; I don’t argue. I simply say “ horses will break down and I’ll be at it again soon” Anything further, it’s “ what I do isn’t your business “ and “ if you know how to fix what’s wrong, you fix it”. Like everything else in life, everyone has an opinion and they think they’re right.
“ if loving you is wrong, I don’t want yo be right” Luther Ingram
https://youtu.be/F9vEKTRLnUI?si=mwcbUWU64BuL7uOg

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by 57rick

The casual fan doesn’t want to hear “ everything is being done” and “ the horses are treated like royalty” when they’ve tuned in 2 weeks in a row with a casualty near the finish line. I know I’m not going to convince anyone I know otherwise. Not that it’s any less tragic, but these breakdowns weren’t at a 2’nd race track with 8 or 9 year old horses running.
I feel everything is being done to prevent catastrophic breakdowns and casualties. Because of human nature, I’m sure not every trainer at Saratoga doesn’t try to get an edge.
I have no answers. Like some, I didn’t bet the rest of the card on Saturday or the card on Sunday. I needed time to process, mourn and express myself. I’m a gambler, not a horseman. A line I live by, from the New York movie Pope of Greenwich Village is “ Let’s stick to what we know here” ( making cheese is what I know&#128514. I know I enjoy handicapping immensely and putting my money on my opinions. I’ll be back at it on Thursday for Toga and Kentucky Downs. I don’t like Wednesdays card.
In closing, no one (yet!) in my small circle of friends has asked or suggested that I give up what I enjoy because of recent events. When it’s been brought up on the past, I’ve allowed anyone to speak their mind to me. I don’t have to defend what I do or the sport. My reply to anyone that has suggested the sport is inhumane or cruel; I don’t argue. I simply say “ horses will break down and I’ll be at it again soon” Anything further, it’s “ what I do isn’t your business “ and “ if you know how to fix what’s wrong, you fix it”. Like everything else in life, everyone has an opinion and they think they’re right.
“ if loving you is wrong, I don’t want yo be right” Luther Ingram
https://youtu.be/F9vEKTRLnUI?si=mwcbUWU64BuL7uOg

F U have a nice day 361 horses a year die and support 100000 jobs. Cost of doing business Have a nice day. Ok I get it but if we had tapeta it would only be 251

[wac]

thanks for the info Steve. Still just hard to stomach. It "seems" like so much has gone wrong at Sar these last few weeks and on the 2 biggest days. Just feel so bad for the connections. doesn't seem fair.

[freddymo]

I loathe tapeta it's boring and the racing sucks. Fewer horses will break down on tapeta. Steve or whoever wishes to comment?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by 57rick

The casual fan doesn’t want to hear “ everything is being done” and “ the horses are treated like royalty” when they’ve tuned in 2 weeks in a row with a casualty near the finish line. I know I’m not going to convince anyone I know otherwise. Not that it’s any less tragic, but these breakdowns weren’t at a 2’nd race track with 8 or 9 year old horses running.
I feel everything is being done to prevent catastrophic breakdowns and casualties. Because of human nature, I’m sure not every trainer at Saratoga doesn’t try to get an edge.
I have no answers. Like some, I didn’t bet the rest of the card on Saturday or the card on Sunday. I needed time to process, mourn and express myself. I’m a gambler, not a horseman. A line I live by, from the New York movie Pope of Greenwich Village is “ Let’s stick to what we know here” ( making cheese is what I know&#128514. I know I enjoy handicapping immensely and putting my money on my opinions. I’ll be back at it on Thursday for Toga and Kentucky Downs. I don’t like Wednesdays card.
In closing, no one (yet!) in my small circle of friends has asked or suggested that I give up what I enjoy because of recent events. When it’s been brought up on the past, I’ve allowed anyone to speak their mind to me. I don’t have to defend what I do or the sport. My reply to anyone that has suggested the sport is inhumane or cruel; I don’t argue. I simply say “ horses will break down and I’ll be at it again soon” Anything further, it’s “ what I do isn’t your business “ and “ if you know how to fix what’s wrong, you fix it”. Like everything else in life, everyone has an opinion and they think they’re right.
“ if loving you is wrong, I don’t want yo be right” Luther Ingram
https://youtu.be/F9vEKTRLnUI?si=mwcbUWU64BuL7uOg

Racing doesn't and will never get it. I loathe HISA; I loathe Tapeta racing. I like racing on dirt. I don't care that 1.7 in a thousand fall and die. The difference between me and most is I am willing to deal with horror. The cheats are the issue, not the racing surface. It's a brutal sport. Jocks are going to be hurt or worse. Gorgeous animals are going to be hurt or worse. Either embrace the brutality or move on. This isn't for you. Nothing about this sport is humane. Nobody trains a horse to run 37 MPH for as long as it can just because. They do it for money. They do it because there is the possibility of making a lot of money for an animal that, in some cases, can cost peanuts.