Really Shug

[freddymo]

So your colt wins the Pat Day Mile with a 100 BSF, bombs in the Stephens, so it's off to the turf? I love Shug think he is as good as there has ever been, fell in love with racing and watching his horses. HAVE A HEART

[Dahoss]

Where should he run?

[RolloTomasi]

You'd think the Phipps Stable's biggest fan would have figured out the trainer pattern long ago.

Shifting his top 3yos to the turf in the summer has long been a tendency of McGaughey since at least the '90s.

Lure, Strolling Along, Point of Entry, Boisterous, Parading, etc...

General Jim is by Into Mischief, a superior turf sire, out of a Curlin mare (Curlin being a superior turf sire by superior turf sire Smart Strike). The dam's 3 career victories were all on turf & the female family includes the closely related Monorail who won her one & only career start which came on turf & turf graded stakes winner Tasha's Miracle.

[freddymo]

Given that there will be some genuine pace in the Jerkins, you would think he has a better shot than going in the HoF. Carl is going to win the HoF for Chad. Point had won his Mdn on dirt, not the Pat Day mile. Lure could run on anything. He was just fastest on the turf.

Makes zero sense unless you are trying to get Don Adam to move on

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Given that there will be some genuine pace in the Jerkins, you would think he has a better shot than going in the HoF. Carl is going to win the HoF for Chad. Point had won his Mdn on dirt, not the Pat Day mile. Lure could run on anything. He was just fastest on the turf.

Makes zero sense unless you are trying to get Don Adam to move on

This is a new side to freddy's keyboard persona...drama queen.

First off, there's nothing stopping Shug from running the horse in both races. This race is Friday August 4. The Jerkens is Aug 26. Have a heart.

Secondly, they are running the Grade 1 Saratoga Derby August 5, which means this race is a consolation race for those turf 3yos not established enough to go there. And yet the purse for this race is a whopping $500k. Why not take a shot?

Meanwhile you're on about Carl Spackler winning this race. If he was half the horse he was touted as when he broke his maiden, he would be in the Saratoga Derby. Instead, he bombed unceremoniously in the Derby day turf race & vanished off the face of the earth. Now he returns 3 months later & has the extreme outside post to deal with. Even if he is talented something went awry & he is quite vulnerable here.

As for the Jerkens, which he can still run in, you toss out the lazy comment that "there will be a ton of speed" that I guess automatically means he will capitalize on & swoop the field to victory. Of course, some of that speed have registered BSFs to the tune of 110, 109, & 106 (New York Thunder, Arabian Lion, Fort Bragg) should they choose to run.

Lure had the same career trajectory as General Jim, looking like a strong dirt sprinter/miler type in the spring before bombing in the exact same race (the Riva Ridge/Woody Stephens) before switching to turf. All he did was win the BC Mile later in the year.

I would have thought you'd be predicting this move after his clock was cleaned in the Woody Stephens...

[RolloTomasi]

Why did I even follow this rabbit hole?

I finally looked at the horse's full record. General Jim is 2 for 3 on the turf already including black type & owns a win over the course.

Yeah, Shug is losing it. I'm sure the owner is worried sick about how his horses are being managed.

Maybe he should try McPeek next...

[freddymo]

After winning the Swale and Pat Day Mile, including beating Fort Bragg it makes sense to go in a G2 turf race all because he handled the turf previously? I don't get it. Shug must love the way he is working on the turf, and I get he handles the turf, but now he has to face good turf horses. He can win sure, but we know he can win graded dirt races. I understand the Jerkins is 3 weeks but after 3 turf works and a decision to migrate to turf that seems unrealistic.

I will be at track for the race and I look forward to being wrong about him. I find it nuts. Given the weather forecast perhaps it comes off and he gallops?

[RolloTomasi]

If you want to distill it to a fine point....Fort Bragg is progressing & General Jim is on the decline in terms of the 3yo dirt sprint division.

What's the excuse for the Woody Stephens performance?

Why is facing marginally good turf horses---again, its a consolation race for horses not good enough for the Sar Derby--more perplexing then facing those 3 triple digit Beyer horses I mentioned in a Grade 1 3 over weeks from now?

Also, now you're saying "he can win" & yet your confused why they would enter him for a $500k pot against non-Grade 1 horses?

Have a brain...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

If you want to distill it to a fine point....Fort Bragg is progressing & General Jim is on the decline in terms of the 3yo dirt sprint division.

What's the excuse for the Woody Stephens performance?

Why is facing marginally good turf horses---again, its a consolation race for horses not good enough for the Sar Derby--more perplexing then facing those 3 triple digit Beyer horses I mentioned in a Grade 1 3 over weeks from now?

Also, now you're saying "he can win" & yet your confused why they would enter him for a $500k pot against non-Grade 1 horses?

Have a brain...

Decline? The colt ran a 100 fig on dirt 75 days ago. I get it that Stephens was ugly. He barely has missed a work since the Stephens. It's an 850k Into Mischief owned by a guy with a trillion dollars. Who the heck cares about the pot? They need a G1 dirt race to make him a stallion in Ky, not a pot. He will be no better than 5th choice in a G2 HOF pot. What is some cinch? Look, it's a strange move. That doesn't mean it can't work, but I am not crazy thinking this is weird. Win the Swale with a 90 improve to a 100 in the Pat Day bomb in the Stephens and off to the lawn to be 6th choice in a field of 10.

I root for Shug, has he had a winner yet at SPA?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Decline? The colt ran a 100 fig on dirt 75 days ago. I get it that Stephens was ugly. He barely has missed a work since the Stephens. It's an 850k Into Mischief owned by a guy with a trillion dollars. Who the heck cares about the pot? They need a G1 dirt race to make him a stallion in Ky, not a pot. He will be no better than 5th choice in a G2 HOF pot. What is some cinch? Look, it's a strange move. That doesn't mean it can't work, but I am not crazy thinking this is weird. Win the Swale with a 90 improve to a 100 in the Pat Day bomb in the Stephens and off to the lawn to be 6th choice in a field of 10.

I root for Shug, has he had a winner yet at SPA?

You're going way overboard on this & your logic is pathetic.

The guy has a trillion dollars, doesn't care about a $500k purse, but cares about making the horse a stallion? Being a graded stakes winner on both dirt & turf doesn't have any appeal?

He'll be no better than 5th choice in the HOF? And what? He'll be the favorite in the Jerkens?...you're out of your mind.

He ran the race of his life in the Pat Day & got lucky to beat Fort Bragg who had trouble & then turned into a pumpkin at Belmont not only getting thrashed by the newcomers but failing maintain form over modest horses like Gilmore & Gun Pilot.

Were you this vocal when Lure was transferred to the turf off one bad race? How did that work out...Hall of Fame career if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe you should have more faith in your idol...

[freddymo]

Yeah, it's tough to get a season to Catholic Boy and War of Worlds....Booked Open with deals available... Turf is a negative, which makes no sense but whatever. Being a versatile stallion is a positive, but that isn't the reality. Yes, Don Adam wants to make a stallion vs. making money. He has money; he doesn't have a stallion. Yes, General Jim can stand in NJ tomorrow; that doesn't count.

It's a weird spot; with the utmost respect tossing the dirt towel into the ring in August is questionable.

Shug is O for to date. I have no idea how you pitch the Pat Day mile winner just because of a few good turf works.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yeah, it's tough to get a season to Catholic Boy and War of Worlds....Booked Open with deals available...

Are those horses sired by the leading sire in NA the past 4 years? Are they out of a mare sired by the current #2 sire in NA (Into Mischief still the current #1) who is the only horse to sire 3 BC winners on a single card? Give me a break.

The leading sire spot in NA over the past few decades is flush with dual surface winners.

Turf is a negative, which makes no sense but whatever. Being a versatile stallion is a positive, but that isn't the reality.

Of the current top 10 in NA, 9 stallions have shown competency in siring good turf horses. Gun Runner being the only hold out.

That's reality...

Yes, Don Adam wants to make a stallion vs. making money. He has money; he doesn't have a stallion. Yes, General Jim can stand in NJ tomorrow; that doesn't count.

Didn't realize you were the guy's spokesperson. Never seen anything in print that said Courtland Farm was desperate to get in the stallion business.

And on the money front it's not all conspicuous consumption. They coughed up $1 million for some City of Light colt & whined about having to go that high to purchase.

Rightfully so, City of Light appears to be a dud sire at this point.

This whole "stallion" thing is another rabbit hole anyway. This horse done anything to suggest stallionhood is in his future...

The only thing he's got going for him right now is his pedigree.

You hoping he lucks out in a Hail Mary pace meltdown in the Allen Jerkens doesn't make sitting on him without a race since his Woody Stephens debacle some logical plan...

It's a weird spot; with the utmost respect tossing the dirt towel into the ring in August is questionable.

Again, Lure had almost an identical trajectory. Lo and behold it all worked out even though he didn't run in the King's Bishop.

There is absolutely nothing "weird" about a good 3yo switching to the turf in the summer. Along with 2yo racing, it is one of the more highly anticipated aspects of the racing season.

Or haven't you noticed the past few years all the $$$ invested into the turf 3yo stakes series in NY?

Shug is O for to date. I have no idea how you pitch the Pat Day mile winner just because of a few good turf works.

What a joke. The Pat Day Mile? It's an undercard race, not a Classic...Have a clue.

A "few good turf works"? Maybe you haven't seen the horse's entire record either.

He's 2 for 3 on turf with a win over the course & a highly rated allowance win at Keeneland (another track where even an allowance win is a big deal).

That aside, why do you act like time is running out for the horse? Off this race Friday he can either come back in the Jerkens, run back in the Saranac, wait for the Gallant Bob, or a hundred other races. Maybe they are trying to decide if they should point for the Cigar Mile or the Hollywood Derby to get this Grade 1 that will somehow fulfill all of Don Adams' hopes & dreams....

As for Shug...what is he? O for 9 or something at the meet?

Yeah, he's clearly lost it. Time to hang it up.

Clearly senility has taken hold if he is attempting to put a multiple turf winner back on the grass after losing his dirt form following a move he has had great success with in the past. Even more outrageous when we are talking about a second tier race with a bloated purse.

I guess a money allowance with an $100k purse against some salty older horses would be much more appropriate ahead of a start in the Jerkens?

[Dahoss]

I thought this was as simple as Shug thinking the waters in the sprint/ mile division, especially the Jerkens, are going to be far too deep for him going forward. The Swale was kind of a joke and he was the luckiest of winners of the Pat Day. Fort Bragg ran much better in defeat.

Ultimately I’m not sure he’s that good anyway but this seems like a pretty realistic spot for him to see if he can be a force on turf going forward.

[NavalOrange]

Orb 80-1

[blackthroatedwind]

I was toying with picking General Jim in the HOF. Now I know I'm picking him!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I was toying with picking General Jim in the HOF. Now I know I'm picking him!

I loathe you

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I thought this was as simple as Shug thinking the waters in the sprint/ mile division, especially the Jerkens, are going to be far too deep for him going forward. The Swale was kind of a joke and he was the luckiest of winners of the Pat Day. Fort Bragg ran much better in defeat.

Ultimately I’m not sure he’s that good anyway but this seems like a pretty realistic spot for him to see if he can be a force on turf going forward.

97 lucky? 99 lucky? yes Ft. Bragg was best but still off to the turf? Rollo go look at those scary talents that Jim crushed in those races. Have a heart. BTW you suck!
It's a weird spot it's a weird decision with a Grade 3 and Grade 2 winner. I can root foR him and hope I am am wrong as an owner I would be WTF

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by freddymo

97 lucky? 99 lucky? yes Ft. Bragg was best but still off to the turf? Rollo go look at those scary talents that Jim crushed in those races. Have a heart. BTW you suck!
It's a weird spot it's a weird decision with a Grade 3 and Grade 2 winner. I can root foR him and hope I am am wrong as an owner I would be WTF

To be fair as an owner you bought a NYB that wasn't a NYB so....

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

To be fair as an owner you bought a NYB that wasn't a NYB so....

There is that to consider as well. Grade 1 stupidity on either surface

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by freddymo

There is that to consider as well. Grade 1 stupidity on either surface