Paying for mediocrity at Monmouth

[Benny]

Controversial payments for trainers and owners at Monmouth announced for 2014. With the declining foal crops , now 5th - 9th place finishers in open company races will get rewarded. Article notes that Gulfstream and Delmar have done this before.

http://www.examiner.com/article/monm...ncentives-2014

[Cannon Shell]

How is it controversial? The shmuck they quoted is crying because NJ bred races arent included.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How is it controversial? The shmuck they quoted is crying because NJ bred races arent included.

" the programs have sometimes drawn criticism for providing incentives for horsemen to start unfit horses in races and for rewarding mediocrity or worse," per DRF Hegarty article 1/30/14

Look what happened in NY when the claiming purses skyrocketed when slot money came in. with so many fatalities on track. No ?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Benny

" the programs have sometimes drawn criticism for providing incentives for horsemen to start unfit horses in races and for rewarding mediocrity or worse," per DRF Hegarty article 1/30/14

Look what happened in NY when the claiming purses skyrocketed when slot money came in. with so many fatalities on track. No ?

lol everything in racing has drawn criticism. The idea that unfit or injured horses will suddenly start appearing in the entries because of 600 bonus is stupid and not related to reality.

What happened in NY had very little to do with purses or incentives in almost every case. It was simply random occurrence as most breakdown spats or lack thereof are. There was a bad year for breakdowns 10 or 11 years ago in NY with numbers exceeding last years with little to no purse raises/incentives or publicity. The chances that a sore horse can win because a purse is higher is laughably sad.

People who criticize how horsemen divvy up their money should buy a horse and get back to us. The idea that a horse running 5th or worse is due to "incompetence" as quoted in the story is exactly why we see fields scratched down to 5 all the time. That logic doesnt elude trainers who would rather not be labeled as incompetent for taking a shot in a race where they wont be one of the top 3 choices.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

lol everything in racing has drawn criticism. The idea that unfit or injured horses will suddenly start appearing in the entries because of 600 bonus is stupid and not related to reality.

What happened in NY had very little to do with purses or incentives in almost every case. It was simply random occurrence as most breakdown spats or lack thereof are. There was a bad year for breakdowns 10 or 11 years ago in NY with numbers exceeding last years with little to no purse raises/incentives or publicity. The chances that a sore horse can win because a purse is higher is laughably sad.

People who criticize how horsemen divvy up their money should buy a horse and get back to us. The idea that a horse running 5th or worse is due to "incompetence" as quoted in the story is exactly why we see fields scratched down to 5 all the time. That logic doesnt elude trainers who would rather not be labeled as incompetent for taking a shot in a race where they wont be one of the top 3 choices.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

lol everything in racing has drawn criticism. The idea that unfit or injured horses will suddenly start appearing in the entries because of 600 bonus is stupid and not related to reality


- While i highly respect you as a horseman,, is it not possible that this will encourage some trainers/owners to enter more horses in races rather than a workout to get paid for it , while using the race as a work ?


What happened in NY had very little to do with purses or incentives in almost every case. It was simply random occurrence as most breakdown spats or lack thereof are. There was a bad year for breakdowns 10 or 11 years ago in NY with numbers exceeding last years with little to no purse raises/incentives or publicity. The chances that a sore horse can win because a purse is higher is laughably sad.

- . It might be that some are willing to take more of a chance to hit the board with enough of an incentive in cheap claiming races where it reqlly needs more of a rest but is entered ? Conjecturing here.

People who criticize how horsemen divvy up their money should buy a horse and get back to us. The idea that a horse running 5th or worse is due to "incompetence" as quoted in the story is exactly why we see fields scratched down to 5 all the time.

] Maybe we can call this dirtying up a horses form ? and not incompetence

That logic doesnt elude trainers who would rather not be labeled as incompetent for taking a shot in a race where they wont be one of the top 3 choices.

??? I also reread the NJ breeders quote and his point as i read it, is that at least NJ breds are paid for accomplishing something in coming in 1,2,3 in open company while the new payment for 5th to last are paid for not being competitive but merely making it gate to wire in one piece .?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Benny

??? I also reread the NJ breeders quote and his point as i read it, is that at least NJ breds are paid for accomplishing something in coming in 1,2,3 in open company while the new payment for 5th to last are paid for not being competitive but merely making it gate to wire in one piece .?

The breeders comment is stupid. NJ breds maidens run for a 50k purse. About 4 NJ breds total are worth more than 50k. The reason that they can have a large bonus % for NJ breds is few of them are competitive at the open level. This is an entirely different program.

The payment is a competition bonus to help defray the costs of owing a horse in training. If you ship in from another track the bonus pays for your shipping, lasix charge (which the track collects which is big reason they want to add a few bucks to owners purse accounts so they dont have to bill and chase people) and jockey fee.

If for example you have a 16 claimer that runs on grass stabled at Parx and they dont have any options there, perhaps the 700 is the difference between deciding to ship to Delaware or Monmouth to run because at least you wont lose money going to MTH.

Paying horsemen a small stipend to compete is hardly some nefarious or morally challenged idea despite what the uninformed believe. This isnt going to make field size double or cause any huge uptick in entries. However if it helps just a little while distributing a small % of the purse account a little more widely among the backside it will be a success. Especially if Parx decides to close for a portion of the Summer as the rumors are pointing to.

[Cannon Shell]

I have to admit that as I sit here looking at the wintery mix turning to snow, wondering how in the world to train in this crap, talking about Monmouth has kind of a carthartic effect

[Danzig]

benny, why would a trainer run a horse above his class, when there will be races for the horse at the class in which he belongs?
monmouth is trying to build fields, and having a bit more money on the table is an enticement.
not sure, tho, that it's an inducement to run horses where they don't belong, or when they're sore or injured. it's money, but it's not a lot of money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

benny, why would a trainer run a horse above his class, when there will be races for the horse at the class in which he belongs?
monmouth is trying to build fields, and having a bit more money on the table is an enticement.
not sure, tho, that it's an inducement to run horses where they don't belong, or when they're sore or injured. it's money, but it's not a lot of money.

The logic that i never understood was that a trainer would be tempted to run an injured horse for a big pot as though the horse would have a better shot because the pot was bigger? Now you can make a case that unscrupulous trainers could more easily hide a horse they want to get rid of by claiming and dropping as a normal tactic because the size of the purse was making up the difference in the amount lost of of the claim price because of the drop in class. However there is a loophole or angle regardless of whatever rules are in place and in the end unscrupulous people are just that.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The breeders comment is stupid. NJ breds maidens run for a 50k purse. About 4 NJ breds total are worth more than 50k. The reason that they can have a large bonus % for NJ breds is few of them are competitive at the open level. This is an entirely different program.

I believe that this past year more NJ breds placed in oopen, probably due to short fields though. Would be interesting to see some stats on this from Monmou



The payment is a competition bonus to help defray the costs of owing a horse in training. If you ship in from another track the bonus pays for your shipping, lasix charge (which the track collects which is big reason they want to add a few bucks to owners purse accounts so they dont have to bill and chase people) and jockey fee.

If for example you have a 16 claimer that runs on grass stabled at Parx and they dont have any options there, perhaps the 700 is the difference between deciding to ship to Delaware or Monmouth to run because at least you wont lose money going to MTH.

Paying horsemen a small stipend to compete is hardly some nefarious or morally challenged idea despite what the uninformed believe. This isnt going to make field size double or cause any huge uptick in entries. However if it helps just a little while distributing a small % of the purse account a little more widely among the backside it will be a success. Especially if Parx decides to close for a portion of the Summer as the rumors are pointing to
d
Makes sense, perhaps you should pen an op ed at DRF to balance it out

.

Glad to hear that conversing about summer at Monmouth has lifted your spirits