Champion Fillies Who Decided Not To Run Any More

On another thread ... Oracle mentioned Storm Flag Flying, Meadow Star, Lady's Secret, and Winning Colors ... as champion fillies who decided that they weren't going to be race horses any more.

I knew of several more ... and did a bit of research ... coming up with this list of champion fillies who one day decided to stop racing ... and performed 20 lengths or more below their best form ... without having been injured ...

Now What, Bridal Flower, Busher, But Why Not, Level Best, Miss Request, Stefanita, War Plumage, Aunt Jinny, Grecian Queen, High Voltage, Parlo, Quill, Rose Jet, Sweet Patootie, Berlo, Furl Sail, Lady Pitt, Regal Gleam, Royal Native, It's In The Air, Sensational, Smart Angle, Tempest Queen, Open Mind, Sacahuista, Countess Diana.

Is there a horse psychiatrist out there ... who can explain this?

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

On another thread ... Oracle mentioned Storm Flag Flying, Meadow Star, Lady's Secret, and Winning Colors ... as champion fillies who decided that they weren't going to be race horses any more.

I knew of several more ... and did a bit of research ... coming up with this list of champion fillies who one day decided to stop racing ... and performed 20 lengths or more below their best form ... without having been injured ...

Now What, Bridal Flower, Busher, But Why Not, Level Best, Miss Request, Stefanita, War Plumage, Aunt Jinny, Grecian Queen, High Voltage, Parlo, Quill, Rose Jet, Sweet Patootie, Berlo, Furl Sail, Lady Pitt, Regal Gleam, Royal Native, It's In The Air, Sensational, Smart Angle, Tempest Queen, Open Mind, Sacahuista, Countess Diana.

Is there a horse psychiatrist out there ... who can explain this?

I asked someone about this over two years ago, after SFF came back like she did.
A very sharp guy told me that its because that many decide that they wanna be "mommys" and thats what is on their minds.
Same guy told me that if you have a good filly you wanna give time off to, don't send em to a farm if you want em to come back and try.
He said at the farm they see the mommys and babys and decide thats what they wanna be.

[ArlJim78]

this is a very interesting topic. is it generally known that there were no other mitigating physical issues with these horses that could have led to the decline? or was it simply a change of mind/heart?

SFF was the one that started me wondering along these lines, she just came back a different horse.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

this is a very interesting topic. is it generally known that there were no other mitigating physical issues with these horses that could have led to the decline? or was it simply a change of mind/heart?

SFF was the one that started me wondering along these lines, she just came back a different horse.

She refused to try. Angel got on her for Shug that winter/spring after she was refusing to try.
So he worked her.
Shug asked him what the problem was. Angel said, she don't try. LOL!!!

[LARHAGE]

I honestly think the problem is that fillies and mares sour very easily, it isn't because they want to be mommies necessarily, I'm more inclined to think they just are generally more sensitive and actually smarter than the colts. I see it even in show horses in all disciplines, you have to vary their routine, liketrail ride one day etc... I also think though on the other hand, when you have them figured out as to what makes them happy, that they will try their hearts out for you more than the colts... they are just very delicate, fragile minded creatures. I remember Wayne Lukas saying the key to fillies was to treat them like your best girlfriend, they need to be pampered and spoiled, or else!

[Downthestretch55]

Ahh, Storm Flag Flying! Toga 2004.
I remember her win in the Personal Ensign, ridden by John Velazquez when she faced Azeri with Pat Day up, Nevermore with Prado, Roar Emotion with Bailey, and Board Elligible with Fragaso.
Nice race.
Storm Flag Flying won by four lengths over Azeri.
Too bad I didn't have her.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

this is a very interesting topic. is it generally known that there were no other mitigating physical issues with these horses that could have led to the decline? or was it simply a change of mind/heart?

All but one (Busher) of the champion fillies I cited ...

... had several starts after their championship year in which they performed many, many lengths below their previous form ... losing many races by huge margins. It doesn't seem as if there were any serious injuries ... or why would they have started so many times?

Here's what they did ...

Now What ... 11 starts in the year following her championship ... 0 wins and 9 times off board.
Bridal Flower ... 4 starts, 0 wins, 3 off the board.
Busher ... 1 start, dwelt, finished 5th, worked an additional 7f, retired.
But Why Not ... 6 starts, 0 wins, 4 off the board.
Level Best ... 11 starts, 1 stakes win, 1 allowance win, last 3 starts lost by combined 51 lengths.
Miss Request ... 19 starts, lost first 7 by combined 74 lengths ... but did win 1 G1 and placed in another.
Stefanita ... 4 starts, 1 place, 3 off the board, combined total of 33 lengths.
War Plumage ... 8 starts, 1 win (stakes over colts), 7 off board, combined 88 lengths.
Aunt Jinny ... 10 starts, 1 ungraded stakes win, 2 graded places, lost last 4 by combined 49 lengths.
Grecian Queen ... 18 starts, 0 wins, combined 156 lengths (9 average).
High Voltage ... 2nd season after ... 17 starts, 1 win, 2 stakes places, off in last 9, combined 83 lengths.
Parlo ... 10 starts, 1 win (ungraded stakes), 1 graded place, 8 off board (83 lengths).
Quill ... 6 starts, 2 allowance wins, 4 off board stakes (49 lengths).
Rose Jet ... 2 starts, both off the board, 20 combined lengths.
Sweet Patootie ... 7 starts, 0 wins, 1 graded place, combined 68 lengths.
Berlo ... 3 starts, finished 4th in each (2 G1's), combined 13 lengths in the 2 G1's.
Furl Sail ... 9 starts, 1 ungraded win, 1 allowance, off board in last 6 by combined 50 lengths.
Lady Pitt ... 11 starts, 2 allowance wins, last 5 losses by combined 97 lengths.
Regal Gleam ... 19 starts, 3 allowance wins, off board in all 10 stakes starts (91 lengths).
Royal Native ... 11 starts, 0 wins, 2 stakes placings, combined 11 losses of 78 lengths.
It's In The Air ... 12 starts, 4 allowance wins, 1 G3 place, last four losses by 76 lengths.
Lady's Secret ... 5 starts, 2 allowance wins, 2 stakes losses by 35 lengths, DNF last start.
Sensational ... take her off list ... she did OK in her two post-champion seasons.
Smart Angle ... 8 starts, 1 G3 win and 2 ungraded placings in first 3, then 5 off board (69 lengths).
Tempest Queen ... 3 starts, 1 allowance win, 2 losses of combined 25 lengths.
Open Mind ... 2 starts, off board in both, combined 22 lengths.
Sacahuista ... 3 starts, 1 allowance placing, 2 stakes losses of combined 31 lengths.
Winning Colors ... 7 starts, 1 ungraded win, 1 allowance win, 5 off board by combined 63 lengths.
Countess Diana ... 4 starts, 0 wins, 1 G3 placing, lost last 3 stakes by combined 26 lengths.

Not a pretty record for once-terrific champions.

P.S. Forgot Meadow Star ... 5 starts, 0 wins, 1 G1 placing (8 lengths back), 5 combined losses of 33 lengths.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

All but one (Busher) of the champion fillies I cited ...

... had several starts after their championship year in which they performed many, many lengths below their previous form ... losing many races by huge margins. It doesn't seem as if there were any serious injuries ... or why would they have started so many times?

Here's what they did ...

Now What ... 11 starts in the year following her championship ... 0 wins and 9 times off board.
Bridal Flower ... 4 starts, 0 wins, 3 off the board.
Busher ... 1 start, dwelt, finished 5th, worked an additional 7f, retired.
But Why Not ... 6 starts, 0 wins, 4 off the board.
Level Best ... 11 starts, 1 stakes win, 1 allowance win, last 3 starts lost by combined 51 lengths.
Miss Request ... 19 starts, lost first 7 by combined 74 lengths ... but did win 1 G1 and placed in another.
Stefanita ... 4 starts, 1 place, 3 off the board, combined total of 33 lengths.
War Plumage ... 8 starts, 1 win (stakes over colts), 7 off board, combined 88 lengths.
Aunt Jinny ... 10 starts, 1 ungraded stakes win, 2 graded places, lost last 4 by combined 49 lengths.
Grecian Queen ... 18 starts, 0 wins, combined 156 lengths (9 average).
High Voltage ... 2nd season after ... 17 starts, 1 win, 2 stakes places, off in last 9, combined 83 lengths.
Parlo ... 10 starts, 1 win (ungraded stakes), 1 graded place, 8 off board (83 lengths).
Quill ... 6 starts, 2 allowance wins, 4 off board stakes (49 lengths).
Rose Jet ... 2 starts, both off the board, 20 combined lengths.
Sweet Patootie ... 7 starts, 0 wins, 1 graded place, combined 68 lengths.
Berlo ... 3 starts, finished 4th in each (2 G1's), combined 13 lengths in the 2 G1's.
Furl Sail ... 9 starts, 1 ungraded win, 1 allowance, off board in last 6 by combined 50 lengths.
Lady Pitt ... 11 starts, 2 allowance wins, last 5 losses by combined 97 lengths.
Regal Gleam ... 19 starts, 3 allowance wins, off board in all 10 stakes starts (91 lengths).
Royal Native ... 11 starts, 0 wins, 2 stakes placings, combined 11 losses of 78 lengths.
It's In The Air ... 12 starts, 4 allowance wins, 1 G3 place, last four losses by 76 lengths.
Lady's Secret ... 5 starts, 2 allowance wins, 2 stakes losses by 35 lengths, DNF last start.
Sensational ... take her off list ... she did OK in her two post-champion seasons.
Smart Angle ... 8 starts, 1 G3 win and 2 ungraded placings in first 3, then 5 off board (69 lengths).
Tempest Queen ... 3 starts, 1 allowance win, 2 losses of combined 25 lengths.
Open Mind ... 2 starts, off board in both, combined 22 lengths.
Sacahuista ... 3 starts, 1 allowance placing, 2 stakes losses of combined 31 lengths.
Winning Colors ... 7 starts, 1 ungraded win, 1 allowance win, 5 off board by combined 63 lengths.
Countess Diana ... 4 starts, 0 wins, 1 G3 placing, lost last 3 stakes by combined 26 lengths.

Not a pretty record for once-terrific champions.

P.S. Forgot Meadow Star ... 5 starts, 0 wins, 1 G1 placing (8 lengths back), 5 combined losses of 33 lengths.

Hey thanks for taking the time to prepare that. Yeah, I agree, about the injuries. It wasn't like they were sitting on the sidelines healing up, they were running and getting clobbered in most cases.

Hmmm...interesting these delicate fillies.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Don't know who the guy was but he was absolutely correct and probably quoting ME.

It's an interesting theory, but I think it's anthropomorphizing a wee bit (now there's a three-dollar word on a dollar-fifty budget, eh?). I absolutely believe in animal intelligence and that endotherms (warm-blooded animals) have emotional lives, but I don't think they have that sophisticated a sense of cause and effect, or of the future. I find it hard to believe a filly would go to a farm, see broodmares and think "Hmm, if I stop running, I'll get sent to a farm and get pregnant." I think they experience life a little too immediately for that. I think I'm more in the "they tend to be oversensitive and get sour more easily than colts do" camp. If they aren't enjoying it, they won't do it because they aren't enjoying it; not because they're hoping if they loaf around the track they'll get sent off to Storm Cat.

Now, while they're in season, I'm sure they're frantic to mate, but I think that's a more primal instinct, and lasts as long as being in season does.

One COULD argue that a predisposition to sourness in female horses is the result of a biological desire to mate, and that colts don't develop it as often because male mammals tend to be sexually mature later than female mammals (and colts tend to be sent to stud by 4 or 5), but I'm doubtful that it's an emotional craving; more an instinctual one. But that would require a heck of a lot of study, and I'd just as soon see that kind of funding go to laminitis research.

Of course, no one knows what a horse truly thinks, so take the above as just opinions from the resident zoo nerd.

there are also colts who sour, refuse to try, etc. not just limited to the female of the species. flower alley is one example. no reported injury, works ok, but come race day....naaaaaah.

whoever finds the answer, the cure, will be a rich man or woman.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's an interesting theory, but I think it's anthropomorphizing a wee bit (now there's a three-dollar word on a dollar-fifty budget, eh?). I absolutely believe in animal intelligence and that endotherms (warm-blooded animals) have emotional lives, but I don't think they have that sophisticated a sense of cause and effect, or of the future. I find it hard to believe a filly would go to a farm, see broodmares and think "Hmm, if I stop running, I'll get sent to a farm and get pregnant." I think they experience life a little too immediately for that. I think I'm more in the "they tend to be oversensitive and get sour more easily than colts do" camp. If they aren't enjoying it, they won't do it because they aren't enjoying it; not because they're hoping if they loaf around the track they'll get sent off to Storm Cat.

Now, while they're in season, I'm sure they're frantic to mate, but I think that's a more primal instinct, and lasts as long as being in season does.

One COULD argue that a predisposition to sourness in female horses is the result of a biological desire to mate, and that colts don't develop it as often because male mammals tend to be sexually mature later than female mammals (and colts tend to be sent to stud by 4 or 5), but I'm doubtful that it's an emotional craving; more an instinctual one. But that would require a heck of a lot of study, and I'd just as soon see that kind of funding go to laminitis research.

Of course, no one knows what a horse truly thinks, so take the above as just opinions from the resident zoo nerd.

I concur, and as a matter of fact a lot of high performance fillies and mares have a tendency to reject their foals, at least the first one, in race mares add the Steroids to the equation and it's even worse. I HATE steroids given to fillies, ever wonder why Todd Pletchers female runners always look like buffed out Quarter Horses? I would NEVER allow steroid use in my horses, male or female.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I concur, and as a matter of fact a lot of high performance fillies and mares have a tendency to reject their foals, at least the first one, in race mares add the Steroids to the equation and it's even worse. I HATE steroids given to fillies, ever wonder why Todd Pletchers female runners always look like buffed out Quarter Horses? I would NEVER allow steroid use in my horses, male or female.

There has never been any study that proves steroids have any effect on female reproduction.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig2

there are also colts who sour, refuse to try, etc. not just limited to the female of the species. flower alley is one example. no reported injury, works ok, but come race day....naaaaaah.

whoever finds the answer, the cure, will be a rich man or woman.

Colts and geldings have the same affliction. Usually there is some kind of unsoundness, sometimes not.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There has never been any study that proves steroids have any effect on female reproduction.

There may not have been any definitive studies prooving it, however, I've had personal experience with it and in fact my Vet always asked first off if the mares had received steroids. It can greatly disrupt their heat cycle and interest in Stallions and teasing.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Colts and geldings have the same affliction. Usually there is some kind of unsoundness, sometimes not.

right...it's just not easy to say that it's a female hormone thing.
wonder how much it has to do with losing that 'alpha' trait....a horse will be willing to follow the herd right along if they no longer feel any desire to lead the way.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig2

right...it's just not easy to say that it's a female hormone thing.
wonder how much it has to do with losing that 'alpha' trait....a horse will be willing to follow the herd right along if they no longer feel any desire to lead the way.

It's a very special horse indeed that doesn't have the natural instinct to follow the herd. Very few actually desire to lead the way.

that's the thing tho...if you have a horse who wants to lead, and then after a while they don't.....

just tossing out ideas. like i said, if i could solve the question, i'd be able to retire.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig2

that's the thing tho...if you have a horse who wants to lead, and then after a while they don't.....

just tossing out ideas. like i said, if i could solve the question, i'd be able to retire.

Yep... I really do think it has something to do with hormones. Hormones rule the world. LOL

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Yep... I really do think it has something to do with hormones. Hormones rule the world. LOL

What a stupid thing to say. Bitch. I'm going to punch you.

Oh, sorry. Must be that time of the month. 'Scuse me; I'm going to have a good cry in the back room...

Tee hee.

(Seriously, I think hormones do have enormous effects on us, too!)

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

What a stupid thing to say. Bitch. I'm going to punch you.

Oh, sorry. Must be that time of the month. 'Scuse me; I'm going to have a good cry in the back room...

Tee hee.

(Seriously, I think hormones do have enormous effects on us, too!)

I wish someone would punch me. (Then I could go home AND get a nose job paid for by insurance, lol.)