Va Derby

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

http://www.drf.com/news/article/76158.html



It is towards the bottom of the article.

Sounds like he isn't running in the Virginia Derby or the Travers. Tough to go back and forth between turf and dirt.

Thanks. My friend said he saw this coming. Tagg is just too conservative in my opinion. The problem is the horse ran huge off a 7 week layoff from the derby and now he thinks the horse needs that much time between all races. Tagg is very lucky he has good owners because most owners wouldn't turn down an easy $600,000.

[blackthroatedwind]

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Make sure you aplogize to MP3 when you get that email back. The difference between 3rd hand info and 1st hand info could never be clearer than it is now.
For months you have explained to us with total certainty that the horse would run in the VA Derby and the Travers. It now appears that he will do neither. Its why I consider anything other than 1st hand info to be phonier than a three dollar bill.

The VA Derby and the Travers was definitely the original plan. Tagg is arguably the most impossible trainer to figure out in the world because he is very conservative. The horse just made him $60K, which is good money for him, so if Tagg wants more space between races who am I to question the guy. No knock on you Oracle, but anyone who thinks KD is in the league with Showing Up probably should stay out of the horse buying business. Not only is SU a much better horse, but he cost hundreds of thousands less than KD cost. Tagg got Showing Up for 60K.

Originally Posted by boldruler

The VA Derby and the Travers was definitely the original plan. Tagg is arguably the most impossible trainer to figure out in the world because he is very conservative. The horse just made him $60K, which is good money for him, so if Tagg wants more space between races who am I to question the guy. No knock on you Oracle, but anyone who thinks KD is in the league with Showing Up probably should stay out of the horse buying business. Not only is SU a much better horse, but he cost hundreds of thousands less than KD cost. Tagg got Showing Up for 60K.

Oh I see. Would you like me to pull up some of his other buys as yearlings the last few years and see what they add up to? How about that expensive Thunder Gulch who broke her maiden for 50 and then got killed in the allowance race? How about Nice Nellie? Please spare me. Buying yearlings is buying a dream. What IEAh does is try and find proven candidates and then pay a premium due to the fact that you won't buy so many 6 figure disasters searching for a good one.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

They think so too considering they could have anyone they want. The knock on Tagg with this horse is that he ran him on two weeks for the derby against a horse that nobody really thought he had a chance against, in Barbaro, but now with a $5M bonus (which I doubt he would get) he doesn't want to run him off 3 weeks rest. The fact is the owners are incredible people because 95% of owners would tell the trainer to take a shot at the $5M.

I do know this, Tagg got him for $60K and considering he will earn millions in his career, Tagg knows a hell of a lot more than me, so I am sure the rest is good for the horse.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

I agree. And I would wager that he knows a lot more about what the horse needs now that Bold or his friend. I think if I had to ask one of the three for some input I would "lean" towards Tagg.

Originally Posted by boldruler

They think so too considering they could have anyone they want. The knock on Tagg with this horse is that he ran him on two weeks for the derby against a horse that nobody really thought he had a chance against, in Barbaro, but now with a $5M bonus (which I doubt he would get) he doesn't want to run him off 3 weeks rest. The fact is the owners are incredible people because 95% of owners would tell the trainer to take a shot at the $5M.

I do know this, Tagg got him for $60K and considering he will earn millions in his career, Tagg knows a hell of a lot more than me, so I am sure the rest is good for the horse.

Since you are such a stickler on facts and apologies I would think that you owe MP3 a pretty good one. He also made you look pretty silly beating you to posting the scoop when for months you have railed on about your "friend" and all the great info you have. By the way the Startegic Mission of Taggs you touted so highly, Stratonic was well beaten in a cheap maiden claimer this past weekend, in case you missed that.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Oh I see. Would you like me to pull up some of his other buys as yearlings the last few years and see what they add up to? How about that expensive Thunder Gulch who broke her maiden for 50 and then got killed in the allowance race? How about Nice Nellie? Please spare me. Buying yearlings is buying a dream. What IEAh does is try and find proven candidates and then pay a premium due to the fact that you won't buy so many 6 figure disasters searching for a good one.

Look Mr. Know It All, get your facts right. Showing Up was bought by Tagg as a 2yr old at a Maryland sale, not a yearling. Nice Nelly is a filly and they run a breeding operation so you can figure out why they bought one of the last Seattle Slew fillies. Nice Nelly thankfully is doing well too. I think IEAH is excellent too, but KD is not Showing Up. Showing Up has earned close to $1M in 5 starts, won a grade II on dirt, and finished 6th in the Kentucky Derby. All that and he destroyed KD. KD will not get the distance this weekend and off his last race he will bounce.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Since you are such a stickler on facts and apologies I would think that you owe MP3 a pretty good one. He also made you look pretty silly beating you to posting the scoop when for months you have railed on about your "friend" and all the great info you have. By the way the Startegic Mission of Taggs you touted so highly, Stratonic was well beaten in a cheap maiden claimer this past weekend, in case you missed that.

Sorry about beating me to the scoop, believe it or not I have a real job. I don't obsess over a chat site like some people. He read a drf article that said he unlikely to go. Maybe I should read the drf every free minute of my time and run to post on "your" website. You see I have a job so that I will be able to buy my own horses one day.

As for Stratonic I saw the replay but didn't get back from the Mets game in time to watch it live. He looked really good, almost hung on for second. Tagg owns that horse so I was hoping he would get him a winner but he is in a maiden claimer for a reason.

Bold you are embarassing your fellow Nyers here. Any Nyer knows that if you are going to bust balls as vigorously as you do that when you trip up you have to expect to have yours busted as well and take it like a man. Now please, accept the busting and lighten up. We aren't curing cancer on this board you know.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think the owners are lucky to have a great trainer like Barclay Tagg.

I do too. Tagg knows what he is doing. Showing Up will win next time out. Of course, I think the Jacksons are very good horsemen also which is why they picked talented trainers with smaller strings of horses in Matz and Tagg.

Ok, here is the story.

Showing Up is still possible for next weekend, but not likely. SU is done racing on the dirt though, which I did not know. He is likely going to Arlington for his next race, I guess that would be the Secretariat, and then he likely will make a start in the Turf Invitational, not sure where that is, and target the BC Turf or BC Mile.


Only 3 more races this year I guess, but they plan on bringing him back next year. There is likely a race in Europe in his future next year. Interesting.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Ok, here is the story.

Showing Up is still possible for next weekend, but not likely. SU is done racing on the dirt though, which I did not know. He is likely going to Arlington for his next race, I guess that would be the Secretariat, and then he likely will make a start in the Turf Invitational, not sure where that is, and target the BC Turf or BC Mile.


Only 3 more races this year I guess, but they plan on bringing him back next year. There is likely a race in Europe in his future next year. Interesting.

Turf Invitational is at belmont Ruler. And I think the grass decision is quite wise. Horses stay sounder on the grass and race longer. Sounds like a very good plan to me. Go for the grade one agaisnt his own generation at Arlington, then use the toughest prep for the BC(Turf Inv).

Originally Posted by oracle80

Turf Invitational is at belmont Ruler. And I think the grass decision is quite wise. Horses stay sounder on the grass and race longer. Sounds like a very good plan to me. Go for the grade one agaisnt his own generation at Arlington, then use the toughest prep for the BC(Turf Inv).

You would know better than me if it is a good plan. I am just telling you what I was told in an e-mail. Tagg knows best for the horse, I just had planned on going to the July 15 race so I am a little unhappy. My plans to go to colonial for the handicapping contest and now the race have blown up on me in a matter of days. Not good.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by boldruler

You would know better than me if it is a good plan. I am just telling you what I was told in an e-mail. Tagg knows best for the horse, I just had planned on going to the July 15 race so I am a little unhappy. My plans to go to colonial for the handicapping contest and now the race have blown up on me in a matter of days. Not good.

Not gonna be there on Sat for the contest??

Originally Posted by GPK

Not gonna be there on Sat for the contest??

No contest. Wedding, thankfully not mine. I was out of this wedding months ago until my brother screwed me. I am not even good friends with the guy but my brother works with him.

Originally Posted by boldruler

No contest. Wedding, thankfully not mine. I was out of this wedding months ago until my brother screwed me. I am not even good friends with the guy but my brother works with him.

These people who get married on big race days have a hell of a lot of ******* nerve.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Ok, here is the story.

Showing Up is still possible for next weekend, but not likely. SU is done racing on the dirt though, which I did not know. He is likely going to Arlington for his next race, I guess that would be the Secretariat, and then he likely will make a start in the Turf Invitational, not sure where that is, and target the BC Turf or BC Mile.


Only 3 more races this year I guess, but they plan on bringing him back next year. There is likely a race in Europe in his future next year. Interesting.

WHERE IS THE MFING LINK FOR THIS INFO!!!!!! SHOW IT TO ME!!!! NOW!!!

Originally Posted by oracle80

These people who get married on big race days have a hell of a lot of ******* nerve.

I barely know the guy but considering I would never win the contest I really don't care. The July 15 race bothers me though. All of these horses and their need for almost 2 months between races is pretty disturbing to me. Barbaro did the same thing though so they obviously know what they are doing. Showing Up is a nice horse but talent wise he isn't even close to Barbaro. I really wish Barbaro had a chance to run in the VA Derby because he was awesome on the turf.

[blackthroatedwind]

First, on not running on the dirt again, that is hardly surprising as I would guess Tagg is one of those trainers that doesn't like to do a lot of surface switching. He certainly knows a lot better than I.

Now, as far as the comment that Showing Up " will " win millions in his career...well that may be jumping the gun. First of all, there isn't THAT much money in turf racing and to win " millions " ( yes I know he has already won around $800K ) he would have to win a few big races. But also, I'm not exactly sure how his win a couple weeks ago stamped him as a superstar. Don't get me wrong, he ran well, better than I thought he would, but he did get a perfect trip behind a blistering pace where he saved all the ground. It also was hardly a spectacular field. He has a lot of improving do, which he certainly can do considering his young age and inexperience, to catch up to even the decent American older horses out there. But, what happens if a few decent Euros show up for next month's Secretariat? My guess is they would offer a very reasonable challenge to Showing Up. What happens if a big field assembles and he doesn't draw an inside post? One thing he does have going for him is tactical speed, along with obvious talent, so he will at least be in a position to make his own trips.

I have to say, I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to argue with decisions from a guy as good as Barcley Tagg, but I can't say this seems like the best time to be conservative. There is the potential for a major payday and as was said earlier....he ran back in the Derby on TWO weeks rest.