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#1
11-09-2009, 09:04 AM
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BC can't answer handle figs honestly: "It's the field size, stupid"
2009 Cup attendance up at SA (thanks to smarter ticket pricing policy).. Handle was off a small amount, but BC can't be honest about it... "It's the economy" they said. No. It's not... It's the watering down of the event with superfluous races like the Marathon and Dirt Mile; the embarrassing field size of 8-9 in sacrosanct original Cup races the Distaff, Sprint, and Turf; and the lack commitment/interest from horseplayers that are put off by the synthetic surface.
http://www.drf.com/news/article/108818.html Ontrack handle showed gains both days despite one fewer race carded per day compared to 2008. Saturday's ontrack handle reached $12,177,982, a gain of 3 percent. The common-pool handle on Saturday reached $96,159,747, a loss of 6 percent from last year's corresponding day. Friday's common-pool handle of $48,439,458 was a decrease of 1 percent. Officials blamed a slow economy for the drop in common-pool betting.
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All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans 
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#2
11-09-2009, 09:14 AM
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Given the economy and the supposedly large anti-synthetic crowd, aren't these numbers really strong? The folks at NYRA were doing cartwheels over a miniscule handle decline at Saratoga this summer, and largely attributed it to the economy. If they are allowed to peddle that line, why can't the Breeders' Cup heirarchy? (And I agree with you about the watered-down product, but isn't that also similar to the overnight program at Saratoga 2009.)
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#3
11-09-2009, 09:22 AM
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__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#4
11-09-2009, 09:42 AM
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The commitment to large wagers just isn't there on the synthetics for 90% of players. Would like to see handle per race to see how correlated field size was. The Turf probably had the weakest year over year handle, but I wouldn't necessarily blame the small field on it but rather the fact that it just wasn't a compelling betting race. A heavy favorite and 4 no-chancers, but quite honestly that's not surprising given the shape of the American turf division this year. Also need to factor in probably $1,000,000 in wagers were refunded when Quality Road scratched at the gate.
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
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#5
11-09-2009, 09:50 AM
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1. The people that run racing are for the most part....not very smart.
2. The people that run the Breeders Cup make the people in #1 look like brain surgeons in comparison. The BC used to be 7 races for a lot of money, it was special to win one of these races, there are 14 now. Seriously, to me its the original 7, maye the FM Turf as well, but the rest dont carry BC weight with me, they are the under card races. The FM Sprint for example, all it has done is watered down the sprint, the two or three best fillies would compete with the Sprint...and they won! The Dirt Mile has taken away horses from the classic (this year maybe the exception). The Turf juveniles, all it did was water down the regular juvenile races. Just moronic decisions, and that has nothing to do with location. I am sure when its 40 degrees and raining next year your going to hear the same stuff. And heaven forbid if anyone gets hurt (the past 2 years no one has).
__________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"...Voltaire
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#7
11-09-2009, 10:01 AM
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i thought that perhaps a two day even would work-but with the time of year the event is held, sat/sunday is impossible. fri/sat is watering it down, especially with moving the distaff to friday.
go back to one day. quit trying to please everyone with so many different races. they should have: the 2 juvie races. sprint f+ m sprint turf mile turf classic classic distaff pump up the classic and distaff purses, cut the juvie purses to 500k. the distaff generally is one of the smaller fields, increasing that purse would draw more horses from overseas.
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#8
11-09-2009, 10:15 AM
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Nonsense, the BC was way watered down with some really dumb races. Also if your budget is "x" and you have been betting on one day in the past at BC, how can you sustain two days! Answer: "Less betting"
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#9
11-09-2009, 10:22 AM
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The Marathon should be toast in my opinion. Especially considering there will be little to no involvement from the Euros next year when it's run on dirt.
As far as the Juvenile Turf races, I'm inclined to give them a chance next year because dirt horses will run in dirt races and turf horses will run in turf races. The changes that were made two years ago and last year were ill-timed. The dirt mile doesn't really work unless you're running at a track that has a one-turn mile. Should it get a chance next year? I'd say yes, but I say that remembering the whole time that it is going to cannibalize the Classic in some way. The Filly and Mare Sprint is probably here to stay considering it's now a Grade I, it has drawn pretty solid fields in three runnings and next year it's being run at an eastern venue. I get the feeling that you have to give some of the new races one go at CD to see about future proclamations. If I had to vote right now I'd pitch the Marathon and JF Turf if you need $1.5 mil to save. However, I think getting the BC off of the two-day format is a near impossibility. NT
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#10
11-09-2009, 10:38 AM
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Obviously the Marathon is meaningless, and to me, the F&M Sprint is ridiculous. Many of the best Sprints came with fillies and mares. The Turf Sprint should be thought through. The Dirt Mile will finally get on dirt and run at a mile, so I guess it should be given a test... But, I'd run this 10 race Breeders' Cup card. 5 on the main and 5 on the lawn: 1. Turf Sprint (P4) 2. Juvenile Fillies 3. Juvenile Turf 4. Juvenile (P4) 5. F&M Turf (P6) 6. Sprint (P5) 7. Mile (P4) 8. Distaff 9. Turf 10. Classic
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#11
11-09-2009, 12:13 PM
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Merge the two Juvy Turf races as you suggested, dump the Marathon. I hate turf sprints but there's so many of them now it really is a 'circuit' so keep that. Leaves 12 races, 4 Friday and 8 Saturday. Friday (hell, run it under the lights at CD): Juvenile Turf Turf Sprint F&M Sprint Dirt Mile Saturday: Juvenile Fillies F&M Turf Juvenile Mile Sprint Distaff Turf Classic
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
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#12
11-09-2009, 12:25 PM
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#13
11-09-2009, 01:31 PM
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Honestly, I'm torn on this whole two-day front. Here are a few random thoughts...
Two days makes it an event - a weekend - a reason for people to fly in one day early to be a part of it. For those who have attended, two days is oddly a bit more relaxing because on Friday you seem to say, "Well, there's always tomorrow." Also, the revenue generated on two days will never be achieved with just one day. Even if you shift races, horseplayers still come to the event/weekend with a finite amount of money to spend. If you eliminate BC races, the simulcast market is still going to spend whatever money they brought for the smaller BC Friday card but not spend it necessarily on the host track, but the entire market as a whole. That is a bad go for the BC because of their pricing in the simulcast market and what they can demand. Races like the dirt mile are a little goofy but it's a catch-all and thus far it has not ruined the Classic. Plus, it's definitely more "betable" than the Marathon and it's easier to form an opinion on than the Turf Sprint. So it's kind of needed to help keep things together and give the card some wagering structure. I think we all have a mental block over the "championship" title for these races. Truthfully, it's just window dressing. Calling the Marathon or JFT a championship is silly, and I'm sure most would agree, but to make the event make sense for fringe fans and general society you need something they can relate to. It's one of those things us horseplayers need to probably say, "Well, it's not, but who cares and oh well." The primary problem I think the BC needs to quickly address is field size. Simply put, field size drives handle. Seven horses in the Turf? That's horrendous. F&M Turf, too. Those two fields cannot be blamed on a watered-down BC product at all. The Sprint? Yeah, you could make a case... but for the amount of Sprint racing we have in America, filling that gate seems like it would be easy, no? The BC is putting-up way too much money for the sized fields they're getting of late. So that leads you to questions like is racing watering its product down too much leading into the event? Are there too many preps which "over-filter" the fields? But that's a different thread.
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#14
11-09-2009, 01:34 PM
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I'll also add that its tough to honestly measure the success of these two days because of the back-to-back synthetic issue. Quantifying that is probably impossible. If it were SA/CD or SA/BEL we could probably assess the pros/cons more accurately. Toss the economy on there and its a rough go.
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#16
11-09-2009, 05:06 PM
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It is also the surface. The Classic being on rubber decimated the Turf field, supposedly the second biggest race on the card. It made the lines between turf and dirt races obscured and a lot of connections looked for the easier spot.
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#17
11-09-2009, 05:13 PM
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Also, why the heck was the synthetic mile allowed to be called the dirt mile? That's like playing MNF games on Wednesdays and still calling it Monday Night Football.
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#19
11-09-2009, 06:04 PM
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From an Owners standpoint I absolutely love the to day event. For a lot of small owners this game is built on Dreams. And the more chances to run for the Big money on one of the biggest stages of the year the better.
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#20
11-09-2009, 06:10 PM
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Turfy Stallions...Did Ramsey buy one of these? Turfy stallions are excellent for foal share programs not making money... Steve Turfy stallions? WTF if El Prado didnt toss MDoro id would be 20k book opend and willing
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