The Chicago Public School Teachers Demand 30% Raise

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

You just insulted the majority of posters on this site.

No I didn't. I just pointed out what a cursing loser you are. You're a pathetic basement dwelling attack rat. Go away, sad little troll.

Lets defend and demand raises for our public school teachers and administrators. They are doing a fine, fine job preparing our children for the future. Teaching them how to be independent, giving them accurate history lessons, teaching them about their government.

Fantastic work. Hell, give them a 100% wage and force the parents to pay for it by doing maintenance work on school grounds, driving buses, giving the teachers oral pleasure, etc.

It's our fault, the private sector working class. We are the ones who spent all of the money.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

OK I can agree to that. But what if there is no money to pay them the wage increase?

Then the taxpayers shouldn't have promised to pay them. That's what negotiation is all about. Negotiation goes both ways, and unions don't want their jobs to go away.

For example, in Wisconsin, the governor said there was no money, so immediately the unions agreed to a massive cut in pay, benefits and pension.

The union is simply a legal representative of all the employees, so each employee doesn't need to negotiate separately.

Teachers have negotiated - by the taxpayers - agreements for performance. If the teachers don't reach them, they can lose their jobs. It works both ways.

Demonizing unions is as silly as demonizing taxpayers.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

No one is forced to work, you choose your path and if you do not like it change it don't hold children hostage.

Teachers chose to accept a job where a specific salary and other job parameters were contractually agreed upon. Both parties have to hold to the agreement.

If the other side breaks the contract, teachers don't have to work anyway.

99% of the time, however, they continue to do so, while new agreements are reached.

Lets not educate ourselves. Just give all public employees raises during a depression. Lets continue to blame one man who was a puppet for all of the world's problems. Lets re-elect a guy who has made things far worse. And if we don't elect him lets elect the guy who won't do any better or make a bit of difference.

Lets just take everything from the suckers who actually pay taxes. Fu.ck us. F.uck us hard. Just let us have jobs and a f.ucking pizza on the weekend. F.uck books, f.uck newspapers. Let's watch Dancing with the Stars and check Huffy Post on our phone and get all slacktivist on social media about how f.ucking cool our President is. He sings old soul songs for crying out loud!!

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Then the taxpayers shouldn't have promised to pay them. That's what negotiation is all about. Negotiation goes both ways, and unions don't want their jobs to go away.

For example, in Wisconsin, the governor said there was no money, so immediately the unions agreed to a massive cut in pay, benefits and pension.

The union is simply a legal representative of all the employees, so each employee doesn't need to negotiate separately.

Teachers have negotiated - by the taxpayers - agreements for performance. If the teachers don't reach them, they can lose their jobs. It works both ways.

Demonizing unions is as silly as demonizing taxpayers.

The taxpayer representation was more often than not put in place by the unions. They (NJEA) gave the governorship of NEW Jersey to one of the biggest scumbags in the history of politics (however much Uncle Joe loves him it is true) what is he supposed to do after that?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

The taxpayer representation was more often than not put in place by the unions. They (NJEA) gave the governorship of NEW Jersey to one of the biggest scumbags in the history of politics (however much Uncle Joe loves him it is true) what is he supposed to do after that?

The taxpayers choose who to represent them in government. They are responsible for their destiny (well, until the Supreme Court said no, people with the most money are in charge)

Taxpayers have hired public school teachers since before many towns were in states. When towns hire hundreds of teachers, the teachers are legally allowed to band together and elect representatives to negotiate on their behalf. Just like the taxpayers have representatives that negotiate on their behalf.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

The taxpayers choose who to represent them in government. They are responsible for their destiny (well, until the Supreme Court said no, people with the most money are in charge)

Taxpayers have hired public school teachers since before many towns were in states. When towns hire hundreds of teachers, the teachers are legally allowed to band together and elect representatives to negotiate on their behalf. Just like the taxpayers have representatives that negotiate on their behalf.

They should negotiate better contracts then. Or should be able to look at the math and say this is totally unsustainable perhaps we should think more long term...
No comment on the NJEA making Corzine the gov?
Or trying to do the same with Barret in WI.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Lets not educate ourselves. Just give all public employees raises during a depression. Lets continue to blame one man who was a puppet for all of the world's problems. Lets re-elect a guy who has made things far worse. And if we don't elect him lets elect the guy who won't do any better or make a bit of difference.

Lets just take everything from the suckers who actually pay taxes. Fu.ck us. F.uck us hard. Just let us have jobs and a f.ucking pizza on the weekend. F.uck books, f.uck newspapers. Let's watch Dancing with the Stars and check Huffy Post on our phone and get all slacktivist on social media about how f.ucking cool our President is. He sings old soul songs for crying out loud!!

So which side are you on?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

They should negotiate better contracts then. Or should be able to look at the math and say this is totally unsustainable perhaps we should think more long term...
No comment on the NJEA making Corzine the gov?
Or trying to do the same with Barret in WI.

I have no knowledge of Corzine and the NJEA.

Barret was not the union-supported and endorsed candidate in the Dem Wisconsin primary. He was not the union choice.

Unions do think long-term. That's why they accept 4% pay raises, and are paid less than in the private sector for the most part. Unions have given us a middle class and massive employee protections that every employee in the United States, private or public, has benefited from (weekends, minimum wage, workplace protection, health care, vacations, 40-hour workweek, etc). The unions in Wisconsin immediately gave up massive pay, benefits and pension agreements to help the state budget (you forget, they are taxpayers, too)

The fact is, that where management and employees have good working relations, and everybody is happy and working towards their goal, being in a union, or not, doesn't really matter.

When employees stick together, they have greater strength, against abusive employers, than as individuals. Where there is no management abuse or massive disagreement, there are no problems, union or not. Where there is abuse, employees sticking together protects themselves, their incomes, their families, their jobs, the middle class and workers. That's not evil. That's awesome.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

I have no knowledge of Corzine and the NJEA.

Barret was not the union-supported and endorsed candidate in the Dem Wisconsin primary. He was not the union choice.

Unions do think long-term. That's why they accept 4% pay raises, and are paid less than in the private sector for the most part. Unions have given us a middle class and massive employee protections that every employee in the United States, private or public, has benefited from (weekends, minimum wage, workplace protection, health care, vacations, 40-hour workweek, etc). The unions in Wisconsin immediately gave up massive pay, benefits and pension agreements to help the state budget (you forget, they are taxpayers, too)

The fact is, that where management and employees have good working relations, and everybody is happy and working towards their goal, being in a union, or not, doesn't really matter.

When employees stick together, they have greater strength, against abusive employers, than as individuals. Where there is no management abuse or massive disagreement, there are no problems, union or not. Where there is abuse, employees sticking together protects themselves, their incomes, their families, their jobs, the middle class and workers. That's not evil. That's awesome.

When talented individuals are grouped with and forced to be treated the same as slackers that is a good thing then? Makes sense in your world I suppose.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

When talented individuals are grouped with and forced to be treated the same as slackers that is a good thing then? Makes sense in your world I suppose.

No and nope.

If management fails to negotiate themselves a position that enables them to fire unproductive employees, that's sure as hell not the employees fault

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Lets defend and demand raises for our public school teachers and administrators. They are doing a fine, fine job preparing our children for the future. Teaching them how to be independent, giving them accurate history lessons, teaching them about their government.

Fantastic work. Hell, give them a 100% wage and force the parents to pay for it by doing maintenance work on school grounds, driving buses, giving the teachers oral pleasure, etc.

It's our fault, the private sector working class. We are the ones who spent all of the money.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

Then the taxpayers shouldn't have promised to pay them. That's what negotiation is all about. Negotiation goes both ways, and unions don't want their jobs to go away.

For example, in Wisconsin, the governor said there was no money, so immediately the unions agreed to a massive cut in pay, benefits and pension.

The union is simply a legal representative of all the employees, so each employee doesn't need to negotiate separately.

Teachers have negotiated - by the taxpayers - agreements for performance. If the teachers don't reach them, they can lose their jobs. It works both ways.

Demonizing unions is as silly as demonizing taxpayers.

The tax payers agreed or the politicians that are supposed to be the representative of the people footing the bill? Do the tax payers actually get to agree to Union demands or just the local government? Ive seen shows on Dateline and 20/20 about teachers detention rooms where teachers go every school day and do nothing because the district cant fire them because of their Union contract but wont let them teach for either bad job performance or other violations.

[dellinger63]

I was wrong. For too long I've blamed parents of failing students for their failure when all along, at least in Chicago, it's obvious now it's the teachers.

The crew of teachers that showed up Sunday, threatening strike in the Daley Center were obviously unable to maintain themselves much less teach or God forbid serve as role models to their students.

Two Questions; why did they pick the Daley Center and not City Hall (directly across the street) to protest? And why were there protest signs in espanol? Must have been the Picassso and using the word horas.

With the first day of school comes the threat of a strike come next Monday. Why because the teachers care!

Fire them all and hire only the good ones back. We owe it to our children and simply throwing more money at bad teachers only compounds and solidifies the problem.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Lets not educate ourselves. Just give all public employees raises during a depression. Lets continue to blame one man who was a puppet for all of the world's problems. Lets re-elect a guy who has made things far worse. And if we don't elect him lets elect the guy who won't do any better or make a bit of difference.

Lets just take everything from the suckers who actually pay taxes. Fu.ck us. F.uck us hard. Just let us have jobs and a f.ucking pizza on the weekend. F.uck books, f.uck newspapers. Let's watch Dancing with the Stars and check Huffy Post on our phone and get all slacktivist on social media about how f.ucking cool our President is. He sings old soul songs for crying out loud!!

I had forgotten how incredibly awesome this rant was - Glad you're back Coach

[dellinger63]

Well the teachers decided to strike, not because of money (they’re offered a 16% pay raise) but because of the job evaluation process. The board wants to grade 45% of teachers performance based on their students’ test scores. Get this, the teachers union thinks that would lead to more cheating.
Numbers behind the scene reveal how pitiful the Chicago school system is. 21K teachers to teach 400K students or one teacher for every 19 students. A $5.1 billion total budget divided up between 400K students comes to $12,800.00 per student. And the pie in the face caveat is CPS graduates just over 50% or its high school students with a good portion of its graduates needing further work to enter college. The teachers were asked not to picket schools acting as day care centers and they responded by picketing those schools using drums to disrupt any meaningful activities going on inside.

CPS is simply a microcosm of what’s wrong with government getting involved in anything but governing. Schools need to be schools and not restaurants and day-care centers.

For the sake of the students both present and in the future we need to provide school vouchers at the least. Better yet, privatize the entire school system and let private/parochial schools do what they’ve been doing all along.

Performance-based jobs are rampant with cheating.

Riot is the google queen. She'll find some stories about teachers fixing test scores.

The revolution is televised. Chicago gets what it deserves. One of the most corrupt cities in the world.

[OldDog]

Meanwhile, the city’s 118 charter schools are not affected by the strike.



It has been suggested that the union may be going on strike for the sole purpose of allowing Obama to intervene and settle the labor dispute, painting him as a uniter, or perhaps even as being tough on unions. This is Chicago, after all.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Lets defend and demand raises for our public school teachers and administrators. They are doing a fine, fine job preparing our children for the future. Teaching them how to be independent, giving them accurate history lessons, teaching them about their government.

Fantastic work. Hell, give them a 100% wage and force the parents to pay for it by doing maintenance work on school grounds, driving buses, giving the teachers oral pleasure, etc.

It's our fault, the private sector working class. We are the ones who spent all of the money.