My theory and feelings on Polytrack

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

The sad part is that its been embraced by euro trainers who could never figure out how to excel with dirt horses, they simply can't train them like our guys can.
This stuff was created in England as a suitable winter time work surface for GRASS HORSES!!!
Its a scam.
Agree with all you said. Horses didn't run wild and evolve over the millions of years on tires.

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

Keeneland's poly surface sure has a knack for making horses look like they're running in a skating rink. Brahms Lullaby was sliding all over the stretch in the last race.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

Yeah, I like her and I like her sire, but she'll get drowned in the Distaff....

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Keeneland's poly surface sure has a knack for making horses look like they're running in a skating rink. Brahms Lullaby was sliding all over the stretch in the last race.

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

I know if I were in their shoes I would do the exact same thing. They risk too much speaking out against this madness.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

Yeah, I hate to be the condescnding media here, but I have to much pride to sit back and alloow everybody to overhype this stuff like its the greatest thing we've ever invented in thsi sport....it makes me sick everytime I hear it and it wouldn't be fair to the horse racing fans on this forum is i didn't give my views on it....

I hate to be the devil's advocate and no I'm not trying to 'rock the boat', but I really don't like this stuff.....can we just go back to running on the dirt, please?

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I know if I were in their shoes I would do the exact same thing. They risk too much speaking out against this madness.

Catch a few after the races at dinner after a ****tail or two after a nice horse they ran just got beat by some mule, they'll speak out plenty. Just can't tell the press.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Catch a few after the races at dinner after a ****tail or two after a nice horse they ran just got beat by some mule, they'll speak out plenty. Just can't tell the press.

co cktail

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

carry over.....good luck..

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, I hate to be the condescnding media here, but I have to much pride to sit back and alloow everybody to overhype this stuff like its the greatest thing we've ever invented in thsi sport....it makes me sick everytime I hear it and it wouldn't be fair to the horse racing fans on this forum is i didn't give my views on it....

I hate to be the devil's advocate and no I'm not trying to 'rock the boat', but I really don't like this stuff.....can we just go back to running on the dirt, please?

Joel you speak to trainers and jocks as well, I'm sure you have heard plenty negative about it, off the record of course.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

Cunningham I thought you knew something about the Natural History of horses. Oracle you too.
For at least the past 400 years humans have intestively bred horses to perform many functions. The draft horses, the pack animals etc... You and I on this board have taken a particular liking to those bred to run on tracks. Horses did not evolve naturally to run in ovals on the dirt. WE, human beings, have selectively bred these animals to perform their current functions. Certain behaviors such as social herd heirarchy and other behaviors are highly ingrained. But we, human beings, have drastically changed the physique and biomechanics of these animals thru selective breeding. The same can be done for polytrack. Why all the fuss right now Cunningham? Its not like selective breeding just started with thoroughbreds. As far as God creating the current form of animal we are looking at... oh boy, I'll stop there. Read the above. Look at what HUMANS have done thru selective breeding to Dogs, Corn, etc... the list is endless.

And I am withholding opinions on Polytrack until more data is in. And far as the complaints about the crud getting into the horses lungs and causing major problems, etc... thats laughable. Ask any vet who knows what they are doing and ask them how much dirt gets in horses lungs. When complaints are made about polytrac that are patently false, the people who put forth these claims make themselves look to be disingenious. And then when one cries wolf when the wolf is actually present, one is not taken seriously.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

God didn't create me to walk on concrete and asphalt either.. but I do.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

lets not call somebodys horse a mule just because he ran well.....if you had sold this one or had some involvment..you would sing a much diffrent tune....hats off to the owner and trainer...they took a shot and it payed off..

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff?

I cant believe I just wasted 2 minutes reading this post....

Get over it, Polytrack is here to stay, its coming to all North American tracks eventually. Embrace it, or become extinct.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Catch a few after the races at dinner after a ****tail or two after a nice horse they ran just got beat by some mule, they'll speak out plenty. Just can't tell the press.

I guess it's good for people who like playing the Schrupp button. That's about the only way you would've cashed the Pick 4 today. Jesus. A River Downs mule takes an allowance at Keeneland.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel you speak to trainers and jocks as well, I'm sure you have heard plenty negative about it, off the record of course.

Its funny you say that....my experience has been that the bad trainers (from a percentage standpoint) love it and the good trainers (won't mention names) hate it...and that is based on a PRETTY SIZABLE sample...that is the one pattern I have seen, and the OBVIOUS reason that pattern exists is because the bad trainers now have the equalizer over the good trainers because nobody knows which horses will run on it or not - so the bad trainers have a chance now....

The sad thing is that all of the good trainers are miffed by it....they don't understand why their horses don't like it because a couple fo them (who are VERY well-known guys) have told me that they are completely confused because they're horses work brilliantly on it and then they flop when they actually run on it in a race....AND BELIEVE ME when I say that these two or three guys KNOW when their horses are ready to fire and are some of the best trainers in the country IMO.....

Its a damn shame, man....

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I guess it's good for people who like playing the Schrupp button. That's about the only way you would've cashed the Pick 4 today. Jesus. A River Downs mule takes an allowance at Keeneland.

How anyone can complain about a $154k pick 4 payout is beyond me...

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

God didn't create me to walk on concrete and asphalt either.. but I do.

Brilliant angle... who is going to argue this?