Your Gold Cup Exacta Please?

[randallscott35]

Yes its 4 horses but let's not have a defeatist attitude and try to make the best of it.

Mine 200$ straight Bernardini over Andromeda's Hero. Feel strongly that the 2 horse is Andromeda's. In fact with the bridge jumpers in full effect a good bet might be Andromeda's to place and hope that something is amiss with Bernardini and he's off the board. The place prices will be ridiculous.

Wanderin Boy--yes controlling speed but I don't think he wants to go this far and I expect Bernie to be close to him pressing him. He'll fade. The Euro is anyone's guess but I'll take my chances against him. With Oratorio taking my money and the great Starcraft up the track last year, its a show me world---and the Euros generally do not do well on the dirt in these spots.

[FATPIANO]

Who really cares, The Breeders Cup has downgraded this once Championship race. At one time this was the race that decided Champions, not it is merely a prep, what a shame...........

Its really hard for me to even look at a 4 horse race.
Its a damn shame what the Breeders Cup has done to the rest of the racing year and racing as a whole would be so much better off without the Breeders Cup.
4 horses in one of the three most prestigious races for 3 and UP in NY every year.
This would be like having a 4 horse Met Mile or a 4 horse Whitney.
Its just awful that this has to happen.
There are still the Vosburgh and the Flower Bowl and the Turf Classic to watch and wager on.
This is very disappointing.

[randallscott35]

Sun King should be in this race. Mistake city.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its really hard for me to even look at a 4 horse race.
Its a damn shame what the Breeders Cup has done to the rest of the racing year and racing as a whole would be so much better off without the Breeders Cup.
4 horses in one of the three most prestigious races for 3 and UP in NY every year.
This would be like having a 4 horse Met Mile or a 4 horse Whitney.
Its just awful that this has to happen.
There are still the Vosburgh and the Flower Bowl and the Turf Classic to watch and wager on.
This is very disappointing.

Yes but Mike you have to get passed it. Bernard scared some off. That happens.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Yes but Mike you have to get passed it. Bernard scared some off. That happens.

He didn't scare off anyone Randall. They never intended to run Invasor here unless Bern got ill.
I hate the Breeders Cup more and more every year.
This is what happens when a bunch of rumdumb sports writers decide that their eclipse vote should be based on one day's happenings.
Horses used to battle a few times per year and have rivalries. Its how Secretariat was beaten despite his greatness, and Bern is no Secretariat.
Horses have good days and bad days, even the greats.
Of course when you only have to face 3 other horses instead of 10, its a lot easier to compile a gaudy record.
The Breeders Cup makes it ok to play stay away from the leaders until one day.
Personally I'd trade that one great day of BC races for the 10-15 better days we would get big days and grade one days the rest of the year.
This is really a disgrace.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He didn't scare off anyone Randall. They never intended to run Invasor here unless Bern got ill.
I hate the Breeders Cup more and more every year.
This is what happens when a bunch of rumdumb sports writers decide that their eclipse vote should be based on one day's happenings.
Horses used to battle a few times per year and have rivalries. Its how Secretariat was beaten despite his greatness, and Bern is no Secretariat.
Horses have good days and bad days, even the greats.
Of course when you only have to face 3 other horses instead of 10, its a lot easier to compile a gaudy record.
The Breeders Cup makes it ok to play stay away from the leaders until one day.
Personally I'd trade that one great day of BC races for the 10-15 better days we would get one big days and grade one days the rest of the year.
This is really a disgrace.

I agree about Invasor, it was nonsense, but how about the other trainers with older horses and little in the way of guts. Jeez, picking up a 3rd place check in this race is a decent chunk of change. Should be 8 horses in here minimum.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Sun King should be in this race. Mistake city.

Randall trainers aim horse at races with certain precision in their work patterns(the good ones do anyway).
Its not so easy to readjust a training schedule to have the horse ready to run his best shot at the last minute. Nick did what was right.

[randallscott35]

We'll see Mike. Albert got the prep, ran well. Bird didn't, ran evenly at best. The layoff here will be 2 months or more, right? Yuck.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its really hard for me to even look at a 4 horse race.
Its a damn shame what the Breeders Cup has done to the rest of the racing year and racing as a whole would be so much better off without the Breeders Cup.
4 horses in one of the three most prestigious races for 3 and UP in NY every year.
This would be like having a 4 horse Met Mile or a 4 horse Whitney.
Its just awful that this has to happen.
There are still the Vosburgh and the Flower Bowl and the Turf Classic to watch and wager on.
This is very disappointing.

I think this might be one of the few things you and I totally agree on. I hate the Breeders Cup and what it is done for racing in the older horse division throughout the year. There really needs to be something done. How on earth does the JCGC get 4 horses. It is insane.

[slotdirt]

Man, that is one SHORT field.

[slotdirt]

Which is too bad because there are some daggone good races on the rest of the card at Belmont. I love the FLower Bowl. Even the Vosburgh comes up remotely tough.

[moke0043]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Yes its 4 horses but let's not have a defeatist attitude and try to make the best of it.

Mine 200$ straight Bernardini over Andromeda's Hero. Feel strongly that the 2 horse is Andromeda's. In fact with the bridge jumpers in full effect a good bet might be Andromeda's to place and hope that something is amiss with Bernardini and he's off the board. The place prices will be ridiculous.

Wanderin Boy--yes controlling speed but I don't think he wants to go this far and I expect Bernie to be close to him pressing him. He'll fade. The Euro is anyone's guess but I'll take my chances against him. With Oratorio taking my money and the great Starcraft up the track last year, its a show me world---and the Euros generally do not do well on the dirt in these spots.

What ever happened to Starcraft?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by moke0043

What ever happened to Starcraft?

I believe he is still running down the Belmont stretch as we speak.

[slotdirt]

Think Starcraft is standing in Europe or Australia somewhere, no?

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think this might be one of the few things you and I totally agree on. I hate the Breeders Cup and what it is done for racing in the older horse division throughout the year. There really needs to be something done. How on earth does the JCGC get 4 horses. It is insane.

Euro the younger crowd who posts here in their 20's doesn't know anything different than what we have now. As long as they have been following the game its always been Breeders Cup oriented.
They truly don't remember the days of large fields in grade oes in the handicap and three year old divisions.
There was no reason to skip anything those days.
The famous longshots that used to light up the board are gone for themost part. and big winning streaks are normal now.
What people don't grasp very often is that field size is a HUGE factor in race outcomes, and guys used to take shots with longshots that the media now ridicules if they run.
Funny thing is that in two of the last three Fosters at CD, a HUGE longshot won, and both trainers only took a shot because CD put up their entry fees to ensure a larger field size.
Large fields almost always insure honest, if not fast paces and traffic jams at some point. In the days of yesteryear with traffic and not always an ideal pace and trip to contend with it was REAL hard to have a huge winning streak.
I hear morons now saying that so and so is no good because he or she lost two races in a row!!! LOL!! Imagine that!!!
Now you get small fields with pedestrian paces and no duels. They look like harness races at 1/2 mile tracks. Someone makes the lead and someone drafts along 2nd. Then maybe on the turn one horse pulls out to try and make a move and one follows him. The rest just draft along looking to suck up for 3rd or 4th money.
Its real easy to rip off winning streaks when you never have to encounter traffic or a less than ideal pace scenario. All you have to do is go along at an even clip and then make one move.
It allows horses to win on days when they aren't at their best because of the lack horses in the race who can trip out, or get lucky with a trip, or just plain run a huge race that day.
I mean, Bern can run a subpar effort and still win tomorrow. Wanderin Boy is gonna go to the lead, Bern will sit a clear 2nd, and the other two will race behind pretty far back in 3rd or 4th. There isn't any chance of a speed duel or of Bern getting boxed in or having to encounter traffic or getting pinned in on a dead rail. He can run subpar and still win.
The Breeders Cup is also responsible for the weakened triple crown contenders. The old timers in Ny used to run their best two year olds in the Champagne and then shut them down for the year. They'd head to Aiken, SC or Florida and give them real time off before cranking them up again for the Derby trail. That extra 3-4 weeks of training really does have a HUGE effect on them. They now only get 1-2 months of down time instead of 2-3 and you really can't even shut them down at all for a month. You still have to keep them in light training. There isn't any question in my mind that it hurts their development.
Last years first three Cup Juvy's, well see for yourself. First Sam came back a bit subpar, Stevie was injured in his next start, and Henny didn't reappear until Summer. Its simply too much to ask them to race that hard that late in the year and keep going into the crown. Same with juvy fillies. Folklore only made one more start, Wild Fit has never been the same, and Original Spin didn't get back into any kind of form until August. Does anyone really not see the link here?
Its one orgy that leads to a HUGE and lasting hangover.
Racing was no doubt better off by miles in the pre cup days. We had REAL grade ones with full fields and fans got truly excited on days where there was a grade one race. Grade one races on the dirt now mean 5 horse fields with a horse who is at least 3-5.
The ironic part of this is that horsemen still race turf horses all year long because they know the Euros are always tough to beat in the BC. They don't put all their eggs in one basket and still try to compete in and race all year long in the grade ones.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Yes its 4 horses but let's not have a defeatist attitude and try to make the best of it.

Mine 200$ straight Bernardini over Andromeda's Hero. Feel strongly that the 2 horse is Andromeda's. In fact with the bridge jumpers in full effect a good bet might be Andromeda's to place and hope that something is amiss with Bernardini and he's off the board. The place prices will be ridiculous.

Wanderin Boy--yes controlling speed but I don't think he wants to go this far and I expect Bernie to be close to him pressing him. He'll fade. The Euro is anyone's guess but I'll take my chances against him. With Oratorio taking my money and the great Starcraft up the track last year, its a show me world---and the Euros generally do not do well on the dirt in these spots.

That is the only logical way that you can play the race randall. My theory is that Bernardini is going to crush Dylan Thomas's and Wanderin Boy's hearts so bad that they might give up which sets it up for Andromeda's Hero to get second since he is a closer. Wanderin Boy will have the lead, and Dylan Thomas has tactical speed so he will be really close to Bernardini throughout the race. When Bernardini turns it on, I'm banking on those two to completely give up because he will leave them spinning off behind him. Andromeda's Hero should run right by those two.

[moke0043]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I believe he is still running down the Belmont stretch as we speak.

LMAO!!!!!

Originally Posted by moke0043

LMAO!!!!!

I hear they sent him to stud where he was born back at the Daisy Hill Puppy Farm. I bet you guys didn't know he was a half brother to Snoopy.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its really hard for me to even look at a 4 horse race.
Its a damn shame what the Breeders Cup has done to the rest of the racing year and racing as a whole would be so much better off without the Breeders Cup.
4 horses in one of the three most prestigious races for 3 and UP in NY every year.
This would be like having a 4 horse Met Mile or a 4 horse Whitney.
Its just awful that this has to happen.
There are still the Vosburgh and the Flower Bowl and the Turf Classic to watch and wager on.
This is very disappointing.

I cannot agree more. This is an embarrasment. They are eating this up alilve out on the west coast dmff. My only explanation for this besides what the Breeders Cup has done to the sport is that for quite some time this has been billed as the Big MatchUp between Invasor and Bernardini and nobody wanted any part of having to face both of them. Now with the defection of Invasor people had already made other plans and commitments.
As far as Invasor is concerned if he was pulled for the sake of increasing Bernarding stock value than this is a slap in the face to everyone, fans and Invasor and his trainer. Not only does it take away a chance for us fans to finally see a major showdown this year it totally wipes away everything Invasor has accomplised. He was on the brink of doing something so incrediable, much more special than what Lava Man has done this year which is incredible in his own right. Pim Special, Suburban, Whitney and JCGC. Not only does this hamper his chances of HOY it will undoubtable knock him out of any kind of chance at the BCC. He has not raced since the Whitney and that will be close to a 3 month layoff. He will not be sound for this race. Everything K. McGlaughin has done with this horse this year will just be swept away. I truely hope it's true that the horse got sick, if he is healthy than this is absolutley shameful.