a question

[ontheoutside]

todays 10th race purse is 50 thousand

they pay i assume 1 through 5

something like 50 % to 1st 25 % to 2nd 12% to 3rd 8 % to 4th
and 5% to 5th or something like that

so in tenth there is only 4 horses running

so why wouldnt one of the trainers stay in there for at least 2500 dollars for 5th/
thanks
im sure its a easy answer and ill be shaking my head when i read

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ontheoutside

todays 10th race purse is 50 thousand

they pay i assume 1 through 5

something like 50 % to 1st 25 % to 2nd 12% to 3rd 8 % to 4th
and 5% to 5th or something like that

so in tenth there is only 4 horses running

so why wouldnt one of the trainers stay in there for at least 2500 dollars for 5th/
thanks
im sure its a easy answer and ill be shaking my head when i read

Probably because you think your horse has a chance to win a race contested on turf and no chance on wet dirt. Running today most likely means no other starts at Saratoga.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by jms62

Probably because you think your horse has a chance to win a race contested on turf and no chance on wet dirt. Running today most likely means no other starts at Saratoga.

Unless they get a zero date for running, not sure what the rule is there

[casp0555]

only 3 go in the 10th today

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ontheoutside

todays 10th race purse is 50 thousand

they pay i assume 1 through 5

something like 50 % to 1st 25 % to 2nd 12% to 3rd 8 % to 4th
and 5% to 5th or something like that

so in tenth there is only 4 horses running

so why wouldnt one of the trainers stay in there for at least 2500 dollars for 5th/
thanks
im sure its a easy answer and ill be shaking my head when i read

Dont players complain when a horse is entered and the trainer knows the horse has next to no chance? When a trainer says, well they needed the race, i knew they werent 100 %?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Scav

Unless they get a zero date for running, not sure what the rule is there

What does a zero date mean? i never heard that term.

[jnunan4759]

I was involved in a race like this years ago and thought I would get more of the pot and the track just kept the 4th and 5th purse. They kept it listed at the purse but only put out like 93%. 4th and 5th only get like 5% and 2%.

This betting in the 10th was spread out. Even with 3 horses they would make out on win only betting. Any other wagers they were afraid of losing money.

Plus people leave on Sunday. There is only a few thousand at most still in the track for the nightcap.

Originally Posted by jms62

What does a zero date mean? i never heard that term.

It is an eligibility term.

When a new meeting starts. The foal certificates "papers" must be on file in the racing office by a certain date.

Usually the first day of entries.

All horses who meet the criteria are equal with regard to consideration in races that "overfill". Overfill means more entries into a race than the starting gate and tote system can accommodate.

This is not uncommon at places like Saratoga where so many owners and trainers wish to run.

Let's say there's a race that will ultimately be a 12 horse field. But 22 horses are entered. The racing office will first determine which of the 22 entries had their papers on file by the cutoff date. They will have a "zero" date. Turns out 18 satisfied that criteria. Of the other 4, two filed their papers a day late. One was 2 days late and 1 was entered with no papers on file.

Well there's your order of preference. The racing official who conducts the draw will announce before the post positions are assigned we have 18 with a zero date. He'll also detail the status of the others. But at that point those connections know they won't have a chance to be in this race.

Now the draw takes place. 12 draw into the body of the race. 4 are also eligible 2 will be excluded. All totally the luck of the draw.

However, the 2 that were excluded retain their zero date status. They still have preference over those who didn't have the original zero.

There's a thousand other interesting scenarios that can come into play with regard to eligibility. Multiple entries in the same race. Preferring one over another. Races that are split. Allowance conditions that can supersede the dates system and many others.

Trainers and agents who are totally on top of those intricacies can have a big edge on entry day.

[jnunan4759]

Great info Vic. Do tracks still use "stars" ? Used to be if you entered and didn't get into a race, you'd get a preference the next time you entered.

Also, I saw a wierd thing in the SAR pp's the other day. Not sure if it was an error, but it had a horse claimed last race from Michael Dubb/Jason Servis and now running for Michael Dubb/Rudy Rodriguez. Didn't make a lot of sense and wonder if anybody else saw that ? Maybe was an error.

I once had a horse with a partner and wanted to just claim the horse and get rid of him and they told me I couldn't claim him.

Another question. If I'm in a race with a horse, can I claim another entrant in that race? I enquired about that years ago and was told no. Maybe it's a state-by-state thing.

[Alabama Stakes]

Yes you can claim the whole field If You want

[jms62]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

It is an eligibility term.

When a new meeting starts. The foal certificates "papers" must be on file in the racing office by a certain date.

Usually the first day of entries.

All horses who meet the criteria are equal with regard to consideration in races that "overfill". Overfill means more entries into a race than the starting gate and tote system can accommodate.

This is not uncommon at places like Saratoga where so many owners and trainers wish to run.

Let's say there's a race that will ultimately be a 12 horse field. But 22 horses are entered. The racing office will first determine which of the 22 entries had their papers on file by the cutoff date. They will have a "zero" date. Turns out 18 satisfied that criteria. Of the other 4, two filed their papers a day late. One was 2 days late and 1 was entered with no papers on file.

Well there's your order of preference. The racing official who conducts the draw will announce before the post positions are assigned we have 18 with a zero date. He'll also detail the status of the others. But at that point those connections know they won't have a chance to be in this race.

Now the draw takes place. 12 draw into the body of the race. 4 are also eligible 2 will be excluded. All totally the luck of the draw.

However, the 2 that were excluded retain their zero date status. They still have preference over those who didn't have the original zero.

There's a thousand other interesting scenarios that can come into play with regard to eligibility. Multiple entries in the same race. Preferring one over another. Races that are split. Allowance conditions that can supersede the dates system and many others.

Trainers and agents who are totally on top of those intricacies can have a big edge on entry day.

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed definition.

[Rudeboyelvis]

To Scav's point, I know at Tampa you keep your zero date if you run after the race comes off.

Huge advantage considering the lower level of turf racing available that time of year. A big reason why the conditioned turf routes rarely have many defections, and even the open 16K races stay fairly full.

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Yes you can claim the whole field If You want

Not everywhere. Some states will only allow for 2 horses in the same race.

As for can you claim one from a race you're in. The answer to that is yes.

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

Great info Vic. Do tracks still use "stars" ? Used to be if you entered and didn't get into a race, you'd get a preference the next time you entered.

Also, I saw a wierd thing in the SAR pp's the other day. Not sure if it was an error, but it had a horse claimed last race from Michael Dubb/Jason Servis and now running for Michael Dubb/Rudy Rodriguez. Didn't make a lot of sense and wonder if anybody else saw that ? Maybe was an error.

I once had a horse with a partner and wanted to just claim the horse and get rid of him and they told me I couldn't claim him.

Another question. If I'm in a race with a horse, can I claim another entrant in that race? I enquired about that years ago and was told no. Maybe it's a state-by-state thing.

First for the Dubb horse. That has to be a mistake of some kind. An owner cannot claim his own horse using a different trainer.

Have never heard of a state that would prohibit you claiming one in a race you have an entrant in. What state was that? Are you sure that's what they said?

As for the "stars" system. It's pretty similar to using dates. I've been to tracks that use stars. Six of one half a dozen of the other.

[casp0555]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

Great info Vic. Do tracks still use "stars" ? Used to be if you entered and didn't get into a race, you'd get a preference the next time you entered.

Also, I saw a wierd thing in the SAR pp's the other day. Not sure if it was an error, but it had a horse claimed last race from Michael Dubb/Jason Servis and now running for Michael Dubb/Rudy Rodriguez. Didn't make a lot of sense and wonder if anybody else saw that ? Maybe was an error.

I once had a horse with a partner and wanted to just claim the horse and get rid of him and they told me I couldn't claim him.

Another question. If I'm in a race with a horse, can I claim another entrant in that race? I enquired about that years ago and was told no. Maybe it's a state-by-state thing.

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

First for the Dubb horse. That has to be a mistake of some kind. An owner cannot claim his own horse using a different trainer.

Have never heard of a state that would prohibit you claiming one in a race you have an entrant in. What state was that? Are you sure that's what they said?

As for the "stars" system. It's pretty similar to using dates. I've been to tracks that use stars. Six of one half a dozen of the other.

I remember seeing that myself...I will go back and check the PPs (Brisnet) from this weekend

[jms62]

Originally Posted by casp0555

I remember seeing that myself...I will go back and check the PPs (Brisnet) from this weekend

Could it possibly be a private sale after the claim?

Originally Posted by jms62

Could it possibly be a private sale after the claim?

Any horse can be sold after a claim. But there are restrictions as to when that horse may run back for the new connections.