cheers for sheik hamdan

Danzig · #1 09-19-2007, 05:13 AM

best known for being the owner of HOY and globetrotting champion Invasor, the sheik has taken a step in the right direction. gotta love it when someone truly does what is right for his horses. he has limited invasors and jazils stud book to 85 mares, as he feels the current trend towards 100 or more is too much for a stallion, is bad for his health, and the drive towards such a high mark can require a stud to cover four mares a day-which is ridiculous! of course it might be a reach to get jazil to 85....i kid, with his family tree, he's bound to have a full book.
at any rate, once again i applaud hamdan, who brought invasor back for another year of racing when he dammed sure didn't have to. and now this. what are the chances that others will follow?

_ed_ · #2 09-19-2007, 05:35 AM

Yeah I agree.

85 is a good number, I worry about the numbers some stallions are covering. I think I heard a couple of days ago that some shuttle stallions are covering somewhere around 200 a year.

SniperSB23 · #3 09-19-2007, 09:23 AM

It is too bad that Sheikh Hamdan's name often get dragged through the mud by Sheikh Mo's greedy actions. He is one of the few top owners out there that is putting racing ahead of breeding.

sumitas · #4 09-19-2007, 10:06 AM

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am in Sheik Hamdan's corner. Limiting a stallions mares you would think would increase stud fees. The main thing is that he is doing the right thing for the health of the stallion. The market place will adjust the pricing and hopefully this will lead to a more diverse blood stock.

Danzig · #5 09-19-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ed_

Yeah I agree.

85 is a good number, I worry about the numbers some stallions are covering. I think I heard a couple of days ago that some shuttle stallions are covering somewhere around 200 a year.

it's especially amazing when you consider that two HUGE influences on the breed only covered 30-40 mares per year, bold ruler and danzig. the latter is the top stakes winning producer in north america, and he never had HALF what these guys have to cover now. and of course bold ruler was the top sire in america for years.

giants causeway is the tops this year regarding live foals reported--168--in north america alone. that's insanity!!
lion heart led the way last year, 178. so, just think how many mares those stallions had to cover to produce that number. mares who didn't take the first time, foal loss, etc...

sumitas · #6 09-19-2007, 04:14 PM

You have to really wonder whether this excessive breeding by these stallions is not some kind of abuse. I agree with Sheikh Hamdan that this type of extreme breeding is bad for the health of the stallion. Then shuttling them all over the world. This is just not right and I agree with the Sheikh.

As we know, people were exploited in the western world until laws were passed to severely mitigate that exploitation. Now the commercial breeders, the barons of this industry in this time, are exploiting the stallions. It seems that only a federal law limiting the number of total matings by a stallion standing in the US to 100 may very well be required. Capitalism is a great thing but carried to extremes has and does result in abuses.

Danzig · #7 09-19-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

You have to really wonder whether this excessive breeding by these stallions is not some kind of abuse. I agree with Sheikh Hamdan that this type of extreme breeding is bad for the health of the stallion. Then shuttling them all over the world. This is just not right and I agree with the Sheikh.

well, like he said, you'd possibly have a horse covering up to four times a day with a book of 120--so just how many times did giants causeway have to do the same to get the # of foals he got from last springs matings? and people sometimes say these horses deserve to retire to a life of leisure!! that's not what i'd call it!

well, what do you know....giants causeway covered 192 mares last spring. afleet alex-169. he couldn't handle the wear and tear of racing, but he could jump mares four times daily. wonderful. fupeg-131--and then got to shuttle and do it all again in the fall.

complete info here:
http://www.thejockeyclub.com/informa...eportyear=2006

Danzig · #8 09-19-2007, 04:26 PM

i'm going thru the alphabet, so far the high # is el corredor with 195.

surpassed by roman ruler, 197.

Danzig · #9 09-19-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

There can never enough federal government intervention, can there?

i don't think that's the answer. i wonder if anyone keeps track of which horses breed the most, and live the shortest life....is it just coincidence that maria's mon covered the huge amount of mares he did, and died at only 14?

Scav · #10 09-19-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It is too bad that Sheikh Hamdan's name often get dragged through the mud by Sheikh Mo's greedy actions. He is one of the few top owners out there that is putting racing ahead of breeding.

Aren't they brothers?

Kasept · #11 09-19-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm going thru the alphabet, so far the high # is el corredor with 195.

surpassed by roman ruler, 197.

Hmm.. What do those 2 stallions have in common?

(AND FOR EXTRA CREDIT: How many cover did Vindication have last year...?)

Scav · #12 09-19-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Hmm.. What do those 2 stallions have in common?

(AND FOR EXTRA CREDIT: How many cover did Vindication have last year...?)

They are half brothers (RR and Corredor)

Vindication covered 9 billion mares, actually 136

Danzig · #13 09-19-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

You'd have to go a long way to link the numbers of mares he covered to his death.

why? if it's thought very tough on a horse, overworked, overstressed, ill health would seemingly follow, right? it may not be the case with maria's mon, but i'm curious if any correlation exists between larger books and longevity-or lack thereof.

Kasept · #14 09-19-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

They are half brothers (RR and Corredor)

Vindication covered 9 billion mares, actually 136

True.. but the key to the question was, 'Where do ALL OF THEM stand?'

Danzig · #15 09-19-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

True.. but the key to the question was, 'Where do ALL OF THEM stand?'

guessing coolmore

Danzig · #16 09-19-2007, 05:59 PM

nope, hill n dale

Danzig · #17 09-19-2007, 06:02 PM

those two are also halves to maimonides.

ManilaRose · #18 09-19-2007, 06:13 PM

Good point Steve. If I'm not mistaken every stallion named so far stands at Hill 'N' Dale or Coolmore. Certainly not a shock. And as someone mentioned, many ship to the southern hemisphere for the breeding season down there.

Pedigree Ann · #19 09-20-2007, 04:24 AM

A lot more mares get pregnant on the first cover these days than in the past, due to all of the razzle-dazzle medical stuff that allows the vet to pinpoint when she ovulates. Back then, they had to rely solely on the mare's reaction to the teaser, and some mares just plain wouldn't 'show,' or would show too late or too early, leading to repeat covers.

This is not a new phenonmenon, by the way. Hambletonian, the mostly TB founder of the Standardbred, covered huge numbers of mares in his day, starting at age 2 (only 4 mares that year). At 4 he covered 101 mares, one of 7 years he did triple digit covers BUT his conception rate was only 69%: that wouldn't cut it with Coolmore (ask George Washington). He sired over 1300 foals in 24 years at stud, an average of 55 a year. Hambletonian was ridden frequently by his groom, which helped keep him in shape for his working season. Too many stallions are allowed to get fat and flabby on the off season, so the breeding season does become a real physical strain.