NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

You're the poster child for everything that is bad in this sport: uncaring and deliberately ignorant.

Because he doesn't agree with you?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

You don't even know how "the veterinary world" has measured performance.

I read the reports. They don't know how. They did the best they could with what they had to work with, but that is about the best I can say.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I do read, and I found the results ambiguous.

Really? Which studies specifically have you found "ambiguous"?

How could they be anything else when different conclusions are reached?

Well, you're suffering a confusion common to people who know nothing about science, and less than nothing about critical, objective thinking.

I also would submit that the testing methods were woefully flawed. The performance measurements were obviously designed by people that knew little about actual racing and how to measure performance.

And again: list which studies you are calling "flawed", and which "measurements" you think are inadequate. Be specific.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

And spare us your sanctimonious hard ass act crap. You're the poster child for everything that is bad in this sport: uncaring and deliberately ignorant.

How am I uncaring? I very much care about horses like Anew. Ignorant? I know more about the actual sport of horse racing than you will ever hope to know. There is a lot more to racing than sticking them with needles. I guess I struck a nerve...oh well, too bad. Everything I said is true about the horse and the people involved, like it or not. Actions speak a lot louder than words.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Really? Which studies specifically have you found "ambiguous"?



Well, you're suffering a confusion common to people who know nothing about science, and less than nothing about critical, objective thinking.



And again: list which studies you are calling "flawed", and which "measurements" you think are inadequate. Be specific.

I'm not playing your games.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You act like these horses are pets. It would be comical if it weren't so naive. There are PLENTY of horsemen that don't give a crap about the horses. Why are they so interested in keeping Lasix legal? It surely isn't about the horses.

Before anybody lectures me on how everybody loves horses, I'll offer up Anew, a horse that ran in the last race at Penn National tonight.

How about John Fort of Peachtree Stable entering his multiple graded stakes winner Mythical Power (over $800k in earnings) in a $12.5k claiming event at Hollywood Park today?

His previous start was in a Grade 2 at Churchill Downs on Derby Day last year.

The public loves a good reverse-Cinderella story.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not playing your games.

Because you don't have a clue about lasix or studies or methods or peer review and scientific quality. You're only good at throwing out mindless and ignorant accusations and invented crap about trainers and veterinarians. You know what you know, and dammit, you're not gonna let any facts or reality change your mind.

Your games are beyond tiresome. It's not about you. It's about the horses.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Because he doesn't agree with you?

No. Because he's impervious to reality. He's the typical "set my opinion first, and any facts that counter it be damned" fool that is ruining this sport.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's about the horses.

Yeah, sure it is. I've already addressed this and you went off on a ridiculous, unfounded rant.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

The dose of lasix is standardized by body weight.

Not if the same horse can receive 150mg one race and 500mg the next.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I read the reports. They don't know how. They did the best they could with what they had to work with, but that is about the best I can say.

What the hell are you talking about? There are multiple studies out there, some in the research lab and some retroactive studies of actual racing results.

You just dissed them all as to results and methodology.

You don't have the first clue what you are talking about. You have no idea how veterinarians measured "performance".

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not if the same horse can receive 150mg one race and 500mg the next.

My. god. you. are. ignorant. Yes, the dose of lasix is determined by body weight. You are making imaginary scenarios up out of thin air.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

What the hell are you talking about? There are multiple studies out there, some in the research lab and some retroactive studies of actual racing results.

You just dissed them all as to results and methodology.

You don't have the first clue what you are talking about. You have no idea how veterinarians measured "performance".

The retroactive studies using actual racing results are particularly laughable. I have a database with nearly a million races in it that can easily disprove any of the conclusions they drew from the data they had.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

My. god. you. are. ignorant. Yes, the dose of lasix is determined by body weight.

So you are saying an individual horse gets the same amount of lasix each time it races?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The retroactive studies using actual racing results are particularly laughable. I have a database with nearly a million races in it that can easily disprove any of the conclusions they drew from the data they had.

CMorioles says he can disprove 100% of any published scientific study by his personal computer database.

Please - the climate deniers and conspiracy theorists need your help desperately

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

CMorioles says he can disprove 100% of any published scientific study by his personal computer database.

Please - the climate deniers and conspiracy theorists need your help desperately

That isn't what I said, and you know it. I guess you are still sore I said it isn't always about the horse, even though you know it is true. So you twist things and make others up instead of admitting your psychotic rant was totally out of line.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

So you are saying an individual horse gets the same amount of lasix each time it races?

Nope. I said the dose is determined by body weight. Those are two different things, even keeping with your concern.

Try learning about what you are talking about, before you declare "how things are"?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That isn't what I said, and you know it. I guess you are still sore I said it isn't always about the horse, even though you know it is true. So you twist things and make others up instead of admitting your psychotic rant was totally out of line.

No, that's exactly what you said. Here. Read your words:

cmorioles wrote: "The retroactive studies using actual racing results are particularly laughable. I have a database with nearly a million races in it that can easily disprove any of the conclusions they drew from the data they had."

I'll inform Gluck and NIH that it is worthless to do any research using actual horses races or laboratory imitation of racing conditions, because cmorioles has a database that can easily disprove any of the conclusions they draw from the data they have.

You might want to look up "psychotic". It doesn't mean how you are using it. And, again:the climate deniers need men who think like you.

It's nice to know that, throughout weeks of discussion regarding lasix, you and your buddy Rollo have absolutely refused to acknowledge any piece of evidence that even remotely negatively impacts your preformed opinions.

Good luck with that, guys.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope. I said the dose is determined by body weight. Those are two different things, even keeping with your concern.

Try learning about what you are talking about, before you declare "how things are"?

You're the undisputed master at turning things on their heads and driving them into the ground.

What I said was that instead of allowing individual horses to receive a variable amount of lasix (3cc to 10cc), it would be more ideal to standardize the amount. That is to say, every horse would receive lasix at the same dosage--for example, 0.5mg/kg bw--every time it runs.

What you are arguing is anyone's guess.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, that's exactly what you said. Here. Read your words:



I'll inform Gluck and NIH that it is worthless to do any research using actual horses races or laboratory imitation of racing conditions, because cmorioles has a database that can easily disprove any of the conclusions they draw from the data they have.

You might want to look up "psychotic". It doesn't mean how you are using it. And, again:the climate deniers need men who think like you.

It's nice to know that, throughout weeks of discussion regarding lasix, you and your buddy Rollo have absolutely refused to acknowledge any piece of evidence that even remotely negatively impacts your preformed opinions.

Good luck with that, guys.

I clearly was referencing the studies about Lasix and performance that used actual race results, nothing more. Only an idiot could stretch that to other fields.like weather. Well, an idiot or a psycho.