The Graveyard of Champions Claims Another

Seattleallstar · #1 08-29-2015, 04:51 PM

BOOO!

Port Conway Lane · #2 08-29-2015, 05:15 PM

48 1/5, 46 4/5, 26 2/5. Flesh and Blood. Wasn't good enough. Beholder will be tough if she runs back to the Pac. Cl.

DonGuido · #3 08-29-2015, 06:16 PM

Keen Ice ran down a champion who did not have his usual kick in the last 2 furlongs . . . it's that simple. If he was on his game like before, AP would have put Frosted away by lengths and Keen Ice would have been the bridesmaid since Frosted was done too.

Normally on AP's game I was gung ho when I saw 24 and 24 +/- for the first splits but he was not on his A-Game today that's all.

Too bad, but he held off the horse that challenged him and that did him in today. Honor in defeat for sure. What's next? . . . we can only wait and see. Hope all is well for the best 3YO in the world and congrats to the Keen Ice connections. They got exactly what they wished for . . . a win over the best who was not at his best today.

I say rest him and train up to the BC Classic if he does anything else this year at all.

Let the speculation begin.

alysheba4 · #4 08-29-2015, 06:59 PM

what a complete turnaround for keen ice...... A 1 win lifetime horse wins the travers stakes wow.

Seattleallstar · #5 08-29-2015, 07:24 PM

I thought when he pulled away from Frosted I thought he was still running at a pace where he could hold off and win. Maybe train up to the BC Classic would be better for TC Champion

bare it all · #6 08-29-2015, 08:16 PM

I swear if they retire this horse just because he lost... Ridiculous.

DonGuido · #7 08-29-2015, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alysheba4

what a complete turnaround for keen ice...... A 1 win lifetime horse wins the travers stakes wow.

You're kidding right?

DonGuido · #8 08-29-2015, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

I thought when he pulled away from Frosted I thought he was still running at a pace where he could hold off and win. Maybe train up to the BC Classic would be better for TC Champion

Thanks for agreeing. The best answer for AP right now.

DonGuido · #9 08-29-2015, 11:08 PM

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...set-on-pharoah
I think Mr. Zayatt is knee jerking like when your all star baseball son has a chance to win the College World Series and he strikes out on split finger that he knows he can't hit . . . slow down and take a slow look at the situation.

1. AP is still the best 3YO in the world
2. He had a bad race at a place where many greats have had one
3. You have 2 months to get him ready
4. You only got beat because your horse was not your horse for one day by a horse who had only one maiden win in his career and showed little up to now . . . a FLUKE, perhaps, likely?!
5. He can easily come back and beat all who show in Classic but you won't know unless you try.
6. Stop lamenting and get it together, get with Bob and make a plan . . . then tell us what's going to happen.

Thank you and did I mention he's the best 3YO and one of the best horses overall in the world.

ponyboy6676 · #10 08-30-2015, 02:11 AM

Let's face the facts, this was his first race since his maiden loss where he was pace pressured. Most of his races came up with no pressure or soft fractions. He is the best
horse in a mediocre 3yo crop. The owners should retire him now before he is exposed
to the top older horses. Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed where true great champions. Pharaoh has garnished many grade 1's, but against who?

saratogadew · #11 08-30-2015, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonGuido

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...set-on-pharoah
I think Mr. Zayatt is knee jerking like when your all star baseball son has a chance to win the College World Series and he strikes out on split finger that he knows he can't hit . . . slow down and take a slow look at the situation.

1. AP is still the best 3YO in the world
2. He had a bad race at a place where many greats have had one
3. You have 2 months to get him ready
4. You only got beat because your horse was not your horse for one day by a horse who had only one maiden win in his career and showed little up to now . . . a FLUKE, perhaps, likely?!
5. He can easily come back and beat all who show in Classic but you won't know unless you try.
6. Stop lamenting and get it together, get with Bob and make a plan . . . then tell us what's going to happen.

Thank you and did I mention he's the best 3YO and one of the best horses overall in the world.

1. Agree
2. I would not call it a bad race.
3. True
4. Keen Ice has shown more than just "a little" up to now. This is a very good horse.
5. totally agree
6. Agree

Big Peps · #12 08-30-2015, 08:27 AM

Espinoza needs to really shut up as well. Lezcano rode frosted to win, rode aggressively, if he was a leaning a bit, well to me that is good race riding and really doesn't need to be spewed about immediately post race. With all the success he has had the past two years, he really sounded foolish post race. Embarrassing really

In addition, lay off the whip a bit Victor, he really goes overboard with that on many occasions

LARHAGE · #13 08-30-2015, 08:42 AM

I don't get the violins about his loss, this horse has had a very busy year crammed into 6 months, he has travelled extensively and beaten these same horses up multiple times by double digits, I think the horse is a game son of a gun and loves to run hence his eagerness to train, but sometimes horses don't let you know how empty their tank is until you actually need them to use it, Pharoah was simply empty at the top of the stretch after battling with Frosted and put that one away on sheer heart, he simply couldn't hold off the perfect trip Keen Ice in the last few jumps, I was just as impressed with his ability to dig in and fight as he could have been off the board and dusted, but he wasn't, that horse has logged a lot of miles and it just got him that last furlong, no shame in his race, he still towers over these colts as this was the only way they could finally beat him.

JimmyEllis · #14 08-30-2015, 10:56 AM

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can't conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

horseofcourse · #15 08-30-2015, 11:18 AM

I can't see where it was a bad race by Pharoah. they absolutely flew the second half mile. 46.7 second half mile in a 10 or 12 furlong race is rough. Normal trend is to go much quicker first half then jog the second half. Reminded me of the 2004 Belmont Stakes....exact same race. Exact same brutal second half mile. Exact same result. Keen Ice had enough to barely pick up the pieces.

FATPIANO · #16 08-30-2015, 11:22 AM

AP A Pig

horseofcourse · #17 08-30-2015, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Normally on AP's game I was gung ho when I saw 24 and 24 +/- for the first splits but he was not on his A-Game today that's all.

Your problem is you didn't read the entirety of the splits in Port conway's post right before you. After those two 24 and 24 plus they actually kept running the race. Look at Pharoah's second half mile splits in every other single race he ran a route compared to this one. IN complete totality of speed of the race, he ran the same as he did in the Belmont Stakes and Ky Derby and Ark Derby according to Beyer at least. the way he and Frosted hauled the second half mile side by side, yeah, his "normal" kick wasn't there, but who's "normal" kick would be there?

DonGuido · #18 08-30-2015, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

I would kind of agree with this. I thought Victor panicked when Frosted headed him and urged AP too early, something that he has never done before or had to do before. So what if Frosted goes a length in front at that point in the race. Knowing AP did not have the same energy he's shown before, I would say Victor has to take some of the blame for his performance.

I predict after all the dust settles and the connections assess this the way the should without emotion, we'll see him race one more time and hopefully with rest and preparation he will bring his A game with him. If so, he'll go into retirement with a win and his legacy soundly in tact.

DonGuido · #19 08-30-2015, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Your problem is you didn't read the entirety of the splits in Port conway's post right before you. After those two 24 and 24 plus they actually kept running the race. Look at Pharoah's second half mile splits in every other single race he ran a route compared to this one. IN complete totality of speed of the race, he ran the same as he did in the Belmont Stakes and Ky Derby and Ark Derby according to Beyer at least. the way he and Frosted hauled the second half mile side by side, yeah, his "normal" kick wasn't there, but who's "normal" kick would be there?

Problem? AP is not "normal". Wrong on both accounts but no biggie.

RolloTomasi · #20 08-30-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis

Better ride gets it done. The problem is that Espinosa can conceptualize that ride. So he got the horse beat and conviently blamed in on conditioning; along with all the other experts. Maybe AP wasn't at the top of his game but he ran well enough to win the race. Shame

It would be interesting to know what exactly was Lezcano's game plan with Frosted. Was he simply targeting American Pharoah or was he trying to make the lead (perhaps thinking AP would sit just off the frontrunner ala the AK Derby, KY Derby, and Haskell)?

From a running style standpoint, Frosted is fairly versatile. He showed solid early speed in Florida and in his maiden breaker at 2. In the Wood, he seemed rejuvenated with an off-the-pace style (although I believe he also had corrective throat surgery at the same time). In the Derby, he came from well out of it and closed stoutly, yet ultimately made no impression on the top two home. In the Belmont, he stalked and let American Pharoah dictate the running, then made a strong move at him (while having to steady slightly on the far turn) in the stretch, but could not get even within a length of him. So unless his connections were resigned to running for second money, sending him to the lead made a lot of sense. It was the only tool they had yet to use to reverse form on AP.

Of course, it still didn't work. But what it did do was force Espinoza to ride the race as if it were 9f and not 10f. As Baffert himself said, AP won the Kentucky Derby "on guts" and "got away with it". Many people suggested, despite winning the Derby, that AP had come back down to earth. The rest of the Triple Crown, which was practically scripted for AP's ascension (a torrential downpour minutes before the Preakness, a paceless Belmont) brushed away all those nagging concerns about AP and distance limitations. The facile manner of the subsequent Haskell further solidified the mantle of invincibility bestowed on this horse. But in the end, like many a brilliant racehorse, AP will always be vulnerable at the classic distances, especially when there is an honest pace scenario.