Bernardini = 117 Beyer, Henny Hughes = 113 Beyer - Page 2

Pointg5 · #21 10-09-2006, 01:56 PM

Any word on Goodwood Beyers?

Dunbar · #22 10-09-2006, 05:58 PM

Pointg, Lava Man got a 109. (it's on the Leaderboard at DRF.) Brother Derek must have gotten about a 105.

The 109 is Lava Man's 3rd straight. Much as I love the horse, I don't see him matching up vs Bernardini.

--Dunbar

Gander · #23 10-09-2006, 06:05 PM

Bernardini is much better than Point Given. He has defeated older horses and has agreed to stay around and not fake an injury to retire. If you believe he "got hurt" after the Travers I have a new baseball team in Idaho to sell you. Cmmon now. Point Given should never be mentioned with Bernardini.

blackthroatedwind · #24 10-09-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Bernardini is much better than Point Given. He has defeated older horses and has agreed to stay around and not fake an injury to retire. If you believe he "got hurt" after the Travers I have a new baseball team in Idaho to sell you. Cmmon now. Point Given should never be mentioned with Bernardini.

I was not Point Given's biggest fan but he won the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers in succession and earned speed figures extremely similar to Bernardini. Yeah, he should have hung around, but are you suggesting to me that he wouldn't have manhandled the likes of Wanderin Boy and Andromeda's Hero?

I actually think Point Given is an excellent comparison to Bernardini and a compliment to both of them.

TitanSooner · #25 10-09-2006, 06:19 PM

and I'm sure those beyers are perfect with no bias.

Gander · #26 10-09-2006, 06:28 PM

I thought Point Given was a huge talent yes. But his phony exit left a bitter taste in my mouth. I still am more impressed with Bernardini up to this point than I ever was with Point Given. I wont go into who each faced because its not their fault they both beat up on cupcakes, although at least Bernardini wrote an open invitation for all older horses to come take him on. He'll do it again in 4 weeks. For the record I think Wanderin Boy is a much better horse than either Touch Tone and E Dubai were.

#27 10-09-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I was not Point Given's biggest fan but he won the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell and Travers in succession and earned speed figures extremely similar to Bernardini. Yeah, he should have hung around, but are you suggesting to me that he wouldn't have manhandled the likes of Wanderin Boy and Andromeda's Hero?

I actually think Point Given is an excellent comparison to Bernardini and a compliment to both of them.

I agree...I obviously believe bernardini is the superior animal between he and Point Given, but they can definately be compared at this point, especially as 3-year-olds....

Now, Bernardini can't be compared with horses like Seattle Slew and Bid right now because most people wouldn't be able to handle it, but I think he will by the time he is done ......just my opinion..

I think he's better than Ghostzapper right now......again, just my opinion....

blackthroatedwind · #28 10-09-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

and I'm sure those beyers are perfect with no bias.

Nobody ever said they were " perfect ", whatever the hell that even could possibly mean in this situation, but the insinuations of bias only reflect on your ignorance.

TitanSooner · #29 10-09-2006, 07:15 PM

Here's a serious question because I really don't know the answer and I'm hoping someone here does. How can they give Bernardini a Beyer Figure that's considered remotely accurate without having any (or very very few) Mile and a quarter races on the dirt at Belmont?? And that can go for any horse at any track.. The beyer number Bernardini received made me think of it is all.

#30 10-09-2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

Here's a serious question because I really don't know the answer and I'm hoping someone here does. How can they give Bernardini a Beyer Figure that's considered remotely accurate without having any (or very very few) Mile and a quarter races on the dirt at Belmont?? And that can go for any horse at any track.. The beyer number Bernardini received made me think of it is all.

Here's another question:

How could you even give Beyers to horses like Bernardini and Discreet Cat when they aren't even asked to brake a sweat?

Does that mean we can add like 10 points to their Beyer to compensate for if they were actually asked to lay down and run.....Bernardini's 117 and Discreet Cat's 115 in their last races were giving speed figures for workouts....

blackthroatedwind · #31 10-09-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Here's another question:

How could you even give Beyers to horses like Bernardini and Discreet Cat when they aren't even asked to brake a sweat?

Does that mean we can add like 10 points to their Beyer to compensate for if they were actually asked to lay down and run.....Bernardini's 117 and Discreet Cat's 115 in their last races were giving speed figures for workouts....

What about Thoroughgraph and Ragozin numbers? Can they be made or is it only the Beyers you are singling out in what appears to be a seriously misguided direction you are leading this discussion?

Funny, but some would say that horses like bernardini would perform worse if seriously challenged. I, for one, doubt they could perform a lot better. But, hey, what do I know.

Pointg5 · #32 10-09-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Pointg, Lava Man got a 109. (it's on the Leaderboard at DRF.) Brother Derek must have gotten about a 105.

The 109 is Lava Man's 3rd straight. Much as I love the horse, I don't see him matching up vs Bernardini.

--Dunbar

Thanks Dunbar, I thought it may have been a little higher, but it's probably about right...

TitanSooner · #33 10-09-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What about Thoroughgraph and Ragozin numbers? Can they be made or is it only the Beyers you are singling out in what appears to be a seriously misguided direction you are leading this discussion?

Funny, but some would say that horses like bernardini would perform worse if seriously challenged. I, for one, doubt they could perform a lot better. But, hey, what do I know.

Actually you bring up a good point. Any speed numbers would be tough to be accurate with such limited data.

And I agree with you about them "not being asked." I watched the jcgc and saw Castellano still as a statue, but it still looked like Bernardini was running his ass off.

Maybe the whip will discourage him.. It doesn't always make them run much faster.

Pointg5 · #34 10-09-2006, 07:37 PM

Has Bernardini ever put up a Sheet# that compares to GZ or St. Liam? The best I have seen is a -2, I don't think he can really be considered great unless he cracks the -4 range on Thoro...If not, he's really no different than Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, or Flower Alley for that matter...

Pointg5 · #35 10-09-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

Actually you bring up a good point. Any speed numbers would be tough to be accurate with with limited data.

And I agree with you about them "not being asked." I watched the jcgc and saw Castellano still as a statue, but it still looked like Bernardini was running his ass off.

Maybe the whip will discourage him.. It doesn't always make them run much faster.

I don't believe that just because a horse looks like he's not working hard, that he suddenly will pick up and go faster when he has to...

#36 10-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Here's another question:

How could you even give Beyers to horses like Bernardini and Discreet Cat when they aren't even asked to brake a sweat?

Does that mean we can add like 10 points to their Beyer to compensate for if they were actually asked to lay down and run.....Bernardini's 117 and Discreet Cat's 115 in their last races were giving speed figures for workouts....

Horses almost always run slower when pressed and challenged, they can't dole out their energy in an ideal manner. Its the biggest mistake ever to assume they would go "faster" if pushed.

#37 10-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Has Bernardini ever put up a Sheet# that compares to GZ or St. Liam? The best I have seen is a -2, I don't think he can really be considered great unless he cracks the -4 range on Thoro...If not, he's really no different than Smarty, Afleet Alex, Point Given, or Flower Alley for that matter...

He hasn't run as fast as they have. hes just been blessed with bad competition.

Gander · #38 10-09-2006, 08:01 PM

I believe Bernardini is a lot better than Flower Alley. I dont care what the sheet numbers say.

randallscott35 · #39 10-09-2006, 08:03 PM

He sure as hell hasn't run as fast as Mineshaft but he's only a 3 yr old, so at 4 he might.

Danzig · #40 10-09-2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I believe Bernardini is a lot better than Flower Alley. I dont care what the sheet numbers say.

well, yeah! lol
a lot better than ten most wanted also.