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Old 03-09-2013, 10:46 AM
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Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
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Default More relatively meidocre performances by our turf and synthetic horses in Dubai

Dullahan and Little Mike soundly defeated in separate races in Dubai this morning.

The record of our horses on turf and tapeta over there is, has always been, and will probably always be atrocious.

However, we absolutely always dominated on the dirt over there when there was dirt.

Royal Delta (9th place) and Game On Dude (12th place) competed in last years World Cup.

Gio Ponti's 4th place finish in 2010 is our best showing in the Tapeta-run Classics.

Gio Ponti was 4th to winner Gloria De Campeao that day. The same Gloria De Campeao who was 2nd beaten 14 lengths to Well Armed in the Dubai World Cup the year before in the final dirt edition.

Yes, our wonderful six-year-old gelding Well Armed did win the Dubai World Cup by 14 lengths. And I remain on record that we won't win that race again for at least 14 years. With very few exceptions, our turf horses have utterly stunk in those races for a lot longer. That goes back to the late 90's.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
Dullahan and Little Mike soundly defeated in separate races in Dubai this morning.

The record of our horses on turf and tapeta over there is, has always been, and will probably always be atrocious.

However, we absolutely always dominated on the dirt over there when there was dirt.

Royal Delta (9th place) and Game On Dude (12th place) competed in last years World Cup.

Gio Ponti's 4th place finish in 2010 is our best showing in the Tapeta-run Classics.

Gio Ponti was 4th to winner Gloria De Campeao that day. The same Gloria De Campeao who was 2nd beaten 14 lengths to Well Armed in the Dubai World Cup the year before in the final dirt edition.

Yes, our wonderful six-year-old gelding Well Armed did win the Dubai World Cup by 14 lengths. And I remain on record that we won't win that race again for at least 14 years. With very few exceptions, our turf horses have utterly stunk in those races for a lot longer. That goes back to the late 90's.
I don't mind it. Gives better prices on the ones more likely to win. Still can't believe how badly US horses get over bet in these races. It's like people just want to throw their money away.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:03 AM
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Who is the last US horse to win a G1 race away from North America? I should know this - I can remember Falbrav nosed out some US horse in the Japan Cup years ago!
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:12 AM
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I don't mind it. Gives better prices on the ones more likely to win. Still can't believe how badly US horses get over bet in these races. It's like people just want to throw their money away.
Yep. It's bizarre how well they continue to get bet.

Although, the Europeans had the same habit of overbetting their good turf horses against us in the dirt races back in the day. Even occasionally in the sprint.

I remember the Sheema Classic in 2007, we had English Channel, Miesque's Approval (who just dominated in the BC Mile) and Lava Man all get bet well in our pool. They finished 12th, 15th, and 16th. The winner was a Japanese horse.

The record of turf horses since the late 90's has to be comical. I don't think we've won a single race...and The Tin Man is the lone 2nd place finisher I can think of and they let him have it all his own way up front at 9 furlongs and he was a distant 2nd.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:25 AM
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Inevitably, Animal Kingdom will wind up the favorite and Royal Delta will wind up the second choice in our pools this year.

At least no one will ever have to talk about the "Dubai bounce" anymore ... seeing that you, technically, actually have to run a big race in order to "bounce"
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:45 PM
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Who is the last US horse to win a G1 race away from North America? I should know this - I can remember Falbrav nosed out some US horse in the Japan Cup years ago!
Curlin is the latest one coming to my mind.....
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:49 PM
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Curlin is the latest one coming to my mind.....
I did omit a key word in my post - I did mean G1 turf race away from North America.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:03 PM
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Who is the last US horse to win a G1 race away from North America? I should know this - I can remember Falbrav nosed out some US horse in the Japan Cup years ago!
Fleetstreet Dancer ---Doug O'Neil
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Not that many horses from US ships overseas as they are probably outmatched in a lot of the races (especially turf). Europeans can ship their 3rd and 4th tier horses and do well in the US.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:10 PM
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Curlin is the latest one coming to my mind.....
Well Armed's 14 length Dubai World Cup win (2009) came one year after Curlin's mere 7.75 length Dubai World Cup win (2008)

Having two different American based horses, the more recent a 6-year-old gelding, win the DWC by a combined 21.75 lengths probably played a part in moving it to a synthetic surface.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:18 PM
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I did omit a key word in my post - I did mean G1 turf race away from North America.
Gr 1 turf race in Europe? I don't know, Fourstars Allstar won a classic in the early 90's.

Americain debuted in Europe but campaigned here for five or six races and won the Melbourne Cup.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
Well Armed's 14 length Dubai World Cup win (2009) came one year after Curlin's mere 7.75 length Dubai World Cup win (2008)

Having two different American based horses, the more recent a 6-year-old gelding, win the DWC by a combined 21.75 lengths probably played a part in moving it to a synthetic surface.
Man, I keep forgetting about Well Armed. Thanks for the correction.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:12 PM
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Man, I keep forgetting about Well Armed. Thanks for the correction.
Sorry gang, it was Kinsale King in the 2010 Dubai Golden Shaheen...and I think the next one will come in the 2013 Dubai Golden Shaheen from Private Zone.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:15 PM
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Considering the way they ran in the 1 1/2m turf race, there should really be no doubt that Little Mike goes to the Dubai Sheema Classic.

I thought Dullahan ran OK considering he broke slow, was completely, entirely unnecessarily rushed up into a fairly solid pace, and flattened.

Overall, I take nothing big out of both of these efforts - these were totally pure prep races. Both eligible to improve next up.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:44 PM
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Overall, I take nothing big out of both of these efforts - these were totally pure prep races. Both eligible to improve next up.
Good luck with that. I don't expect much from either next time.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:59 PM
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I won't be betting either of them.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:44 PM
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I thought Dullahan ran OK considering he broke slow, was completely, entirely unnecessarily rushed up into a fairly solid pace, and flattened.
Agreed. I don't think he can win in 3 weeks, but the break and ride didn't help and the goal is the World Cup, not today.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
Gr 1 turf race in Europe? I don't know, Fourstars Allstar won a classic in the early 90's.

Americain debuted in Europe but campaigned here for five or six races and won the Melbourne Cup.
I thought I found it - Val's Prince won the Hong Kong Cup in 1997 but it was only a G2 back then..
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:21 PM
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I thought I found it - Val's Prince won the Hong Kong Cup in 1997 but it was only a G2 back then..
It's probably Fourstars Allstar.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:39 PM
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It's probably Fourstars Allstar.
Or Golden Pheasant - he won the 1991 Japan Cup - Fourstars won the 1991 Irish 2000 Guineas..
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:07 PM
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Or Golden Pheasant - he won the 1991 Japan Cup - Fourstars won the 1991 Irish 2000 Guineas..
Charlie Wittingham trained Golden Pheasant ... that gives a good idea of how long it has been.
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