Rachel Alexandra (116 Beyer for Haskell) - Page 9

Indian Charlie · #**161** 08-03-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tector

Yeah, that is what they said about the Summit of Speed, which is in July. A $500,000 race in December would surely be offensive, especially if used to promote the hell out of Calder's new casino opening in January. How dumb.

What kind of mind just repeats the same crap over and over, incapable of even creating one original thought? Besides a parrot.

Parrots are among the most intelligent animals on Earth. Usually they become neurotic in poor captive conditions, which leads to them doing weird things.

Which would explain a lot around here, come to think of it!

Cannon Shell · #**162** 08-03-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tector

Yeah, that is what they said about the Summit of Speed, which is in July. A $500,000 race in December would surely be offensive, especially if used to promote the hell out of Calder's new casino opening in January. How dumb.

What kind of mind just repeats the same crap over and over, incapable of even creating one original thought? Besides a parrot.

I'm sure that Jackson and Moss would agree to run in december at Calder for $500k.

Cannon Shell · #**163** 08-03-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Boy am I glad that Jackson and Asmussen didn't wake up and see the rain and the track and scratch without seeing how the track would be come race time.

I have a hard time understanding how some of you pretty knowledgeable folks are so misguided. As someone else mentioned, Rachel is nowhere near as popular as Smarty Jones and Barbaro were and those two horses didn't bring them in in droves. What in the world makes people think Rachel would? For one, even if she were to run in the BC, 95% of the people that will be watching the races are already racing fans and were going to watch anyway. Just two years ago, Rags to Riches beat the Preakness winner in the Belmont. That was an historical achievement. How many came out to see her next race?

In a few more years, we'll have more horses that are bred with the purpose of being able to be good on synthetics and dirt. Right now, we don't have them. When Rachel and Zenyatta were bred, dirt was still king. They are dirt horses that are just so good that they can run well on synthetics but they are dirt horses. Anyone that uses Rachel's win in a nw2l allowance and says that proves she can handle synthetics is really reaching. Class won out that day. Nicanor won his first two on grass but does that mean he's up to beating Sea the Stars on it? Zenyatta and Rachel are both proven at the top level on one surface, dirt. That's where they should meet if they ever do. Of course, there's every chance that Rachel could flourish on synthetic and be just as good as she is on the dirt. But as much chance as there is, there's as much chance that she won't be. If they are to meet, it has to be in a race where neither has the surface question mark.

What post TC races did Smarty and Barbaro run in again?

MaTH716 · #**164** 08-03-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Boy am I glad that Jackson and Asmussen didn't wake up and see the rain and the track and scratch without seeing how the track would be come race time.

I have a hard time understanding how some of you pretty knowledgeable folks are so misguided. As someone else mentioned, Rachel is nowhere near as popular as Smarty Jones and Barbaro were and those two horses didn't bring them in in droves. What in the world makes people think Rachel would? For one, even if she were to run in the BC, 95% of the people that will be watching the races are already racing fans and were going to watch anyway. Just two years ago, Rags to Riches beat the Preakness winner in the Belmont. That was an historical achievement. How many came out to see her next race?

In a few more years, we'll have more horses that are bred with the purpose of being able to be good on synthetics and dirt. Right now, we don't have them. When Rachel and Zenyatta were bred, dirt was still king. They are dirt horses that are just so good that they can run well on synthetics but they are dirt horses. Anyone that uses Rachel's win in a nw2l allowance and says that proves she can handle synthetics is really reaching. Class won out that day. Nicanor won his first two on grass but does that mean he's up to beating Sea the Stars on it? Zenyatta and Rachel are both proven at the top level on one surface, dirt. That's where they should meet if they ever do. Of course, there's every chance that Rachel could flourish on synthetic and be just as good as she is on the dirt. But as much chance as there is, there's as much chance that she won't be. If they are to meet, it has to be in a race where neither has the surface question mark.

The Barbaro comparison is not fair, unfortunately his popularity soared when he got injured. The whole country was pulling for him. As far as Smarty goes, I want to believe that she is as popular if not more than he was. She hasn't had the cover of SI (yet), but then again she wasn't trying to win the TC. Unfortunately for the sport there are so many different avenues/sites where you could just watch the horse/race at a later date which makes it possible for you not to have to go to the track to watch him or her. But I want to believe that she is one of the handful of horses that people will go out of there way to see live at the track. This was my first Haskell and she was the main reason I attended.

SniperSB23 · #**165** 08-03-2009, 01:33 PM

This is probably as good an example of how much people care about the Triple Crown and don't care about anything else. Look at the spike when Rachel wins the Preakness and the absence of a similar spike when she won the Oaks or won the Haskell:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=rachel+alexandra

tector · #**166** 08-03-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure that Jackson and Moss would agree to run in december at Calder for $500k.

Oh, I am pretty sure Moss wouldn't--and Jackson would. But then even the likes of you would have your answer, although most of us have it already.

King Glorious · #**167** 08-03-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What post TC races did Smarty and Barbaro run in again?

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

tector · #**168** 08-03-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

What "argument"--he's just ranting the same points ad nauseum.

Cannon Shell · #**169** 08-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

You said that they didnt draw fans. What races were they supposed to draw fans to since they never raced beyond the TC? Wasnt there a record crowd at Smarties Belmont?

How else do you raise the awareness level of your product if you dont participate in the most widely available race? How else can thoroughbred racing be taken serious when it cant get its biggest star to run in its biggest events? Since when is a series of races that matches up the best horses and horses from across the world all on one weekend a bad thing? The Fall meet at Belmont is never going to be the same simply because horses arent campaigned the same way. A coordinated stakes program leading up to a year end finale would better than what we have now but to think that we can simply just purge the BC from the schedule and pick up again from 1983 is silly. Before the BC there was fragmnted voting on the year end awards. The fact that the system of electing eclipse awards is broken doesnt mean we should scrap the BC. Just as we can't expect new fans to storm the sport because we have a super horse to market. But to say that the additional attention that a horse like RA would attract wouldn't be a positive is baseless.

Cannon Shell · #**170** 08-03-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tector

What "argument"--he's just ranting the same points ad nauseum.

And you are suggesting a $500k race at Calder in December. Yeah maybe run it on Xmas Eve? Call it the Santa Clause Jackson stakes? Maybe Phil Saltzman can make a comeback and call the race? Or pass out Jess Jackson bobbleheads?

In the end I am suggesting that RA running in the BC would be the best possible outcome for the sport of horseracing. You are suggesting to run in December at Calder. Actually you are probably qualified for an exec position with Magna or CDI or better yet NYOTB.

Cannon Shell · #**171** 08-03-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What difference does it make? If they brought in new fans that only tuned in to watch them again and don't watch anymore because they aren't racing, how is that helping the sport? I thought that you argument was that she is good for racing and could bring in more fans that might stay as fans of the sport and not just fans of hers. If your argument is that she'll bring her own fans, then it won't matter if she's racing at the BC or at Suffolk.

Exposure helps to create fans. The sport gets more coverage. Maybe some people get interested in being owners. Or lets pretend like the Haskell being only on TVG was "good" for the sport. It wont solve racings problems but RA vs an undefeated Zenyatta in the Classic would be a huge event, even for racing. Maybe they both retire afterwards but you need to get eyes on the product in a positive way.

The Indomitable DrugS · #**172** 08-03-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In the end I am suggesting that RA running in the BC would be the best possible outcome for the sport of horseracing.

How?

King Glorious · #**173** 08-03-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You said that they didnt draw fans. What races were they supposed to draw fans to since they never raced beyond the TC? Wasnt there a record crowd at Smarties Belmont?

How else do you raise the awareness level of your product if you dont participate in the most widely available race? How else can thoroughbred racing be taken serious when it cant get its biggest star to run in its biggest events? Since when is a series of races that matches up the best horses and horses from across the world all on one weekend a bad thing? The Fall meet at Belmont is never going to be the same simply because horses arent campaigned the same way. A coordinated stakes program leading up to a year end finale would better than what we have now but to think that we can simply just purge the BC from the schedule and pick up again from 1983 is silly. Before the BC there was fragmnted voting on the year end awards. The fact that the system of electing eclipse awards is broken doesnt mean we should scrap the BC. Just as we can't expect new fans to storm the sport because we have a super horse to market. But to say that the additional attention that a horse like RA would attract wouldn't be a positive is baseless.

I didn't say that they didn't draw new fans. I said that they didn't bring many new fans to the sport. They brought a few fans that wanted to see THEM race. Specifically. Not other horses but them. A lot of those fans didn't stick around because the horses didn't stick around. I think it would be the same with Rachel. Of course Rachel would attract a few more fans to watch her particular race. But would it be a significant amount of people? I don't think so. How many of those few would stick around to watch other races where she's not participating? What I'm saying is that the few extra people that are going to tune in to watch her will tune in whether she's racing at Suffolk or in the BC. Her participation in the BC will not help the sport.

SniperSB23 · #**174** 08-03-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Exposure helps to create fans. The sport gets more coverage. Maybe some people get interested in being owners. Or lets pretend like the Haskell being only on TVG was "good" for the sport. It wont solve racings problems but RA vs an undefeated Zenyatta in the Classic would be a huge event, even for racing. Maybe they both retire afterwards but you need to get eyes on the product in a positive way.

No one knows who Zenyatta is. Rachel against Mine that Bird in the Travers is a far bigger draw than Rachel and Zenyatta to the casual fans.

Cannon Shell · #**175** 08-03-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How?

How would it not?

Cannon Shell · #**176** 08-03-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't say that they didn't draw new fans. I said that they didn't bring many new fans to the sport. They brought a few fans that wanted to see THEM race. Specifically. Not other horses but them. A lot of those fans didn't stick around because the horses didn't stick around. I think it would be the same with Rachel. Of course Rachel would attract a few more fans to watch her particular race. But would it be a significant amount of people? I don't think so. How many of those few would stick around to watch other races where she's not participating? What I'm saying is that the few extra people that are going to tune in to watch her will tune in whether she's racing at Suffolk or in the BC. Her participation in the BC will not help the sport.

How can you possibly quantify this?

Cannon Shell · #**177** 08-03-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No one knows who Zenyatta is. Rachel against Mine that Bird in the Travers is a far bigger draw than Rachel and Zenyatta to the casual fans.

And no one knows the next star third baseman until they see him play. She is an undefeated filly who won the BC last year. This is an easy sell especially because these horses are fillies.

DogsUp · #**178** 08-03-2009, 03:26 PM

Horse racing is interesting. It is like no other sport in the world. First, the connections has to do what is best for the horse. Second, the connections have to do what is best financially. And the horse racing comes 3rd (the fan). There are not too many sports where the fan comes 3rd and that is a distant 3rd. The connections are going to to what is best for them and that is all. I don't think there have been too many people who have said "lets do this for the fans."

Off topic---has anyone heard of thr rumors of Churchill trying to lure Zenyatta and RA for the Clark?

SniperSB23 · #**179** 08-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And no one knows the next star third baseman until they see him play. She is an undefeated filly who won the BC last year. This is an easy sell especially because these horses are fillies.

Mike Moustakas, that's an easy one, and I've never seen him play.

I actually think having two fillies takes away the novelty of it. A filly beating the boys is an easy sell. Once it becomes two fillies beating the boys it isn't as big of a deal. People will just assume the fillies beat the boys all the time.

The Indomitable DrugS · #**180** 08-03-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How would it not?

The race is on a Friday anyway ...

And she would probably run terrible.