NBA Playoffs

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You really think Ariza or Fischer are as good as West? Seriously? I happen to be a Knicks fan but if you think that either is close to West your objectivity may not be in question but your sanity certainly would.

Ariza is a limited player. Fischer is just old. I know his glowing stat line from this years playoffs (7 points and 2 assists per) may dazzle you and his defense is Loyola Marymountesque but those intangibles that he brings to the table along with that 7% 3 point shooting during the current series totally tilt the table in his favor.

Ariza is a much better defender than Delonte west will ever dream of being. He is longer and more athletic. Both are very mediocre offensively. What is the big difference? Ariza, at 6 7, can legitimately cover three positions. Regardless of whom you favor, they are about the same level of player.

And why the hell are we debating the merits of career 10 ppg scorers? LOL

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

McGrady and his lack of leadership and horrible defense
has been a bigger factor imo. McGrady does not fit on this
blue collar team.

The Lakers do not appear to be having fun.
Look at the other benchs on these playoff teams,
they are jumping up and down and yelling, waving
towels. The Lakers mostly sit there. Looks like
they think playing is a chore.

The funny thing is Tmac could play defense when challenged. He use to do a pretty darn good job on Nowitzki.

But that was years and injuries ago and regardless of what it says on his birth certificate, TMAC is quite old for his age.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The funny thing is Tmac could play defense when challenged. He use to do a pretty darn good job on Nowitzki.

But that was years and injuries ago and regardless of what it says on his birth certificate, TMAC is quite old for his age.

A lot of smaller guys that are athletic give Nowitzki problems because he's not physically dominant. If you are athletic with long arms, you can give Dirk problems. McGrady should never be considered a good defensive player and that's sad because he could have been. Guys like James, Bryant, Wade, and McGrady could all be great defenders because they have the physical abilities. But it takes the mental desire to want to be. Jordan had it. Bryant used to have it. James has it now.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The funny thing is Tmac could play defense when challenged. He use to do a pretty darn good job on Nowitzki.

But that was years and injuries ago and regardless of what it says on his birth certificate, TMAC is quite old for his age.

Quite a few offensive superstars decide to play D when they are
shown up. But as far as consistency and helping, forget
it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Ariza is a much better defender than Delonte west will ever dream of being. He is longer and more athletic. Both are very mediocre offensively. What is the big difference? Ariza, at 6 7, can legitimately cover three positions. Regardless of whom you favor, they are about the same level of player.

And why the hell are we debating the merits of career 10 ppg scorers? LOL

Wow. Delonte West basically puts the collar on Joe Johnson and Rip Hamilton and some guy the Knicks deemed expendable is a much better defender? The guy who is the primary small defender on the best defensive team in the NBA? West is head and shoulders above Ariza as a complimentary offensive player.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Wow. Delonte West basically puts the collar on Joe Johnson and Rip Hamilton and some guy the Knicks deemed expendable is a much better defender? The guy who is the primary small defender on the best defensive team in the NBA? West is head and shoulders above Ariza as a complimentary offensive player.

"Someone the knicks deemed expendable"-

Are you joking? You are talking about an Isaiah Thomas move. Thats like saying that Ben Wallace was worthless because the Wizards (and orlando for that matter) deemed him expendable. Its even more funny when using that to compare him to Delonte West...a guy who was deemed expendable by a team THAT NO LONGER EXISTS.

Delonte isnt head and shoulders above anyone as a scorer in the NBA besides Ben Wallace. He is a career 11 ppg scorer. Come on.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A lot of smaller guys that are athletic give Nowitzki problems because he's not physically dominant. If you are athletic with long arms, you can give Dirk problems. McGrady should never be considered a good defensive player and that's sad because he could have been. Guys like James, Bryant, Wade, and McGrady could all be great defenders because they have the physical abilities. But it takes the mental desire to want to be. Jordan had it. Bryant used to have it. James has it now.

You are going to mention Lebron james as an on the ball perimeter defender in the same breathe as Kobe and MJ in their respective primes?

Surely you jest.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You are going to mention Lebron james as an on the ball perimeter defender in the same breathe as Kobe and MJ in their respective primes?

Surely you jest.

I don't know where you read that. Let's take it further. Not only did I not put LeBron at their level but I don't put Kobe at MJ's level. That is not what I said. I said they all share one thing in common and that is a desire to want to be the best defender. That is not the same as saying they have the same ability when they play their best.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't know where you read that. Let's take it further. Not only did I not put LeBron at their level but I don't put Kobe at MJ's level. That is not what I said. I said they all share one thing in common and that is a desire to want to be the best defender. That is not the same as saying they have the same ability when they play their best.

Okay...sorry. I disagree about Kobe not being at Jordan's level. In some ways, i think Kobe was better. He didnt play passing lanes like MJ and he wasnt as physical but in my opinion he was more versatile. Kobe could defend an allen iverson one day and a tracy mcgrady the next.

The Olympics made it very clear Kobe can
defend. When he wants to. He can be totally
disruptive on PG's all the way to 3's. But
on the Lakers in the playoffs, he does not have the luxury of
sitting out major parts of the game. The Laker guards
absolutely stink so far. The have no point. Kobe is
in a bind.

Lebron has Mo Williams and West. That helps a hell of a lot.
Two guys that can handle the ball and score.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The Olympics made it very clear Kobe can
defend. When he wants to. He can be totally
disruptive on PG's all the way to 3's. But
on the Lakers in the playoffs, he does not have the luxury of
sitting out major parts of the game. The Laker guards
absolutely stink so far. The have no point. Kobe is
in a bind.

Lebron has Mo Williams and West. That helps a hell of a lot.
Two guys that can handle the ball and score.

True all the way aroud. the laker guards have played horribly and faster guards are going to give them problems.

But...things change fast in the nba and matchups make teams look better or worse.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

True all the way aroud. the laker guards have played horribly and faster guards are going to give them problems.

But...things change fast in the nba and matchups make teams look better or worse.

True.
Houston has some very fast PGs.
Denver does not
have this speed.
And truthfully I had no idea Artest could
hold it together this well. Especially after the
Kobe elbow. I thought his mind would explode.

Artest has really surprised me with his ability to
stay somewhat focused. I really judged Artest incorrectly.
He has sort of grown up in my eyes.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

"Someone the knicks deemed expendable"-

Are you joking? You are talking about an Isaiah Thomas move. Thats like saying that Ben Wallace was worthless because the Wizards (and orlando for that matter) deemed him expendable. Its even more funny when using that to compare him to Delonte West...a guy who was deemed expendable by a team THAT NO LONGER EXISTS.

Delonte isnt head and shoulders above anyone as a scorer in the NBA besides Ben Wallace. He is a career 11 ppg scorer. Come on.

The knicks didnt have a problem with getting rid of players that came back to bite them in the ass. It was the acquisitions that Isiah had trouble with.

PJ Carlisimo is one of the worst coaches in NBA history. Why he didn't play West at his natural position or eventually play him at all is frightening. If you watched the NBA and the playoffs this year and couldnt see that West is a very good player you are either blind or have slipped into the dreaded Scudszone. I just pray the Lakers dont fck it up today or against Denver so you cant weasel out with some hypothetical theory on why Cleveland or West arent worthy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You are going to mention Lebron james as an on the ball perimeter defender in the same breathe as Kobe and MJ in their respective primes?

Surely you jest.

James can guard all 5 positions on the court, Jordan and Kobe certainly couldnt. Since James decided that defense was important and Kobe didnt the comparisons between the two became academic since James is a better passer and rebounder than Kobe. By the way the Kobe/Spike Lee piece of pr trash last night could have been very good had they not told Kobe which game they were going to film so he could have shown the real side of himself instead of that phony bs persona that he is just one of the guys...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

True.
Houston has some very fast PGs.
Denver does not
have this speed.
And truthfully I had no idea Artest could
hold it together this well. Especially after the
Kobe elbow. I thought his mind would explode.

Artest has really surprised me with his ability to
stay somewhat focused. I really judged Artest incorrectly.
He has sort of grown up in my eyes.

The power of antidepressants!

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

James can guard all 5 positions on the court, Jordan and Kobe certainly couldnt. Since James decided that defense was important and Kobe didnt the comparisons between the two became academic since James is a better passer and rebounder than Kobe. By the way the Kobe/Spike Lee piece of pr trash last night could have been very good had they not told Kobe which game they were going to film so he could have shown the real side of himself instead of that phony bs persona that he is just one of the guys...

Lebron seems like a joyous leader. He revels in
the success of others on his team. No real chip
on the shoulder. Kobe seems to be more like Jordan.
He will beat his teammates down.

I wonder which approach works best.

Lebron would have a tough time against the good power forwards
or posts. He could play them, but he would get into foul trouble
and I think the pushing would wear on his legs which is obviously
why they would never play him there consistently.

On the offensive end, he can play any position just like Magic.
Although I will take Magic at point. Lebron not having to handle
the ball as much is a big burden off him. Kobe just does not have
that luxury. If the Laker sdont get the finals I expect Kobe will
whine about teammates again. Maybe he can go to the Knicks.
NY would like it. And so would I.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lebron seems like a joyous leader. He revels in
the success of others on his team. No real chip
on the shoulder. Kobe seems to be more like Jordan.
He will beat his teammates down.

I wonder which approach works best.

Lebron would have a tough time against the good power forwards
or posts. He could play them, but he would get into foul trouble
and I think the pushing would wear on his legs which is obviously
why they would never play him there consistently.

On the offensive end, he can play any position just like Magic.
Although I will take Magic at point. Lebron not having to handle
the ball as much is a big burden off him. Kobe just does not have
that luxury. If the Laker sdont get the finals I expect Kobe will
whine about teammates again. Maybe he can go to the Knicks.
NY would like it. And so would I.

Really good power forwards like...?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Really good power forwards like...?

Tim Duncan.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

James can guard all 5 positions on the court, Jordan and Kobe certainly couldnt. Since James decided that defense was important and Kobe didnt the comparisons between the two became academic since James is a better passer and rebounder than Kobe. By the way the Kobe/Spike Lee piece of pr trash last night could have been very good had they not told Kobe which game they were going to film so he could have shown the real side of himself instead of that phony bs persona that he is just one of the guys...

you watch a different game than i watch because there is no way in God's green earth Lebron can cover a decent NBA point guard or even the quicker two guards. He can't cover legit NBA centers. You undermine your point when you make statements that are so far from reality.

I love Lebron and I have pretty much thrown up the white flag when it comes to who is a better player between him and kobe. I like watching kobe a lot more but Lebron is better. But a better man to man defender? And can cover 5 positions? You have to get real.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

you watch a different game than i watch because there is no way in God's green earth Lebron can cover a decent NBA point guard or even the quicker two guards. He can't cover legit NBA centers. You undermine your point when you make statements that are so far from reality.

I love Lebron and I have pretty much thrown up the white flag when it comes to who is a better player between him and kobe. I like watching kobe a lot more but Lebron is better. But a better man to man defender? And can cover 5 positions? You have to get real.

I think he could cover some PGuards for one main reason:
He might get beat to the basket, but he can block them
so easy from behind he could get away with forcing them to the basket.
Obviously this would wear him down just like covering a big guy leaning
on his legs, so it is clearly not desirable. Just like it would not be desirable
for the Lakers to have Kobe covering Tony Parker the whole game,
just in spots.